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How can investment and moneymaking go hand in hand with ethics?
We create value by investing so that other people can start new projects, and that is a good thing. And we do it on behalf of future generations. You could of course ask if capitalism itself is ethical. I think it is a system with inherent temptations and possible cruelties that we have to be aware of, but it is the best system we have for spreading prosperity. So I am not troubled working inside the system, but I'm glad that I'm working with the framework of the system, and hopefully helping to improve it.
How would you characterize the ethics of the Norwegian Central Bank?
People here are well aware that they make huge decisions about large sums of money, decisions that are based on values such as moderation, decency, and honesty. We are dependent on the Norwegian people's trust. This way of thinking pervades the organization. I can observe this somehow from the outside, and fortunately it challenges my old prejudices about what it is like in a money palace. In my heart, I am still highly skeptical about the effect money can have on people, and I have a certain Platonic worry about being devoured by material concerns. Therefore, it is good to see that large sums of money can actually be managed ethically and effectively —and that there is a real willingness to ensure that high moral qualities and principles are actually upheld.
When it comes to where not to invest, ethically speaking, that is mainly a political issue, and we at the bank respect and abide by the decisions made. But I must add that it is impossible, and probably not even desirable, to avoid all companies that do bad things. It would not be wise to stand outside of the international economy. The solution is the middle road: Be proper owners and gradually improve the ethics and performance of the companies we're invested in.
Is it ethical to invest in tobacco or weapons?
Good question. And I'm glad I am not the one responsible for answering it as long as I am in this position, since ethical screening is the politicians' decision. But it is a legitimate debate. If we invest in tobacco, we must at least try to get the companies not to promote their products to youngsters. As of today, several kinds of weapons production have been excluded from our investment universe, based on the ethical guidelines, but tobacco has not.
This is an ongoing debate among the politicians.
Which companies are simply unacceptable?
Companies with serious violations of human rights, exploitation of children, and production of illegal weapons. Companies that support immoral regimes and companies that spend money on large-scale corruption. In such cases we cannot use consequentialist ethics, we have to apply duty ethics: It's wrong to invest in these companies, period. That is what our ethical guidelines say, and I think that is wise. But, again, that's the politicians' decision in the end. My end of the playing field is corporate governance and active ownership.
What was it like to be the son of a prime minister?
To be the son of my father was fun. I have many fond memories. He was a caring dad. I have an ambivalent feeling about being the son of a famous person, but for me it was mostly nice and relaxed. Still, I remember when he visited me in Boston, when my wife and I studied there, he came with bodyguards. It was a bit weird. I also remember that everywhere he went, he was met by kindness. Anywhere I go today, there are people who tell me they met my father 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. But I have never felt that I should try to live up to what he did. That was never an issue. When he became prime minister, I was an adult myself. Unfortunately he died early.
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