Typically, children's ministry leaders focus most of their attention on kids, parents, volunteers, and staff. Many don't consider their senior pastor on the list of those they lead. Or at least whom they lead well.

But Bill Hybels offers a different perspective. Bill, the senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois and author of Courageous Leadership, often speaks to church leaders on the critical role they play in their local church. In a candid conversation about effective leadership in children's ministry, Bill provides specific examples and practical approaches you can use to work well with your senior pastor. (Promiseland is Willow Creek's children's ministry.)

In the early days of your church, you were not a big proponent of children's ministry. Today you are a very vocal supporter. What caused you, as a senior pastor, to make such a big change?

I admit I was a late-arriver to see the value children's ministry could bring to Willow Creek. It started when, occasionally, a mother or father would share excitement over how much their kids learned in Promiseland. Parents noticed that their kids were changing, and that grabbed my attention. Then I would run into volunteers fired up about working with children. I never really looked at children's ministry as a place where scores or even hundreds of volunteers could find their most meaningful place of service in the church. I always thought most people would find that adult ministry was the place to use their gifts. But a picture was developing of kids' lives changing—and a place where significant numbers of volunteers were using their spiritual gifts.

Then came a real turning point. Promiseland began to align all their horsepower with the overall objectives of the church. Sue Miller (Promiseland's executive director) began to vision cast and challenge non-member volunteers to join the church. Then she transitioned to a small group structure designed to intentionally shepherd all kids and volunteers. And to help our church's efforts to care for the poor, I learned that Promiseland kids, with adult supervision, had begun to serve meals to homeless people at our church—building compassion into their young hearts. When I saw all of the ways that our children's ministry was in stride with the goals and priorities of the entire church, I said, "This is genius." All of a sudden I realized we were all playing on the same team, going in the same direction.

What is important for children's ministry directors to understand about their senior pastor?

I have never seen a day where it is harder to be a senior pastor than this day, and I have never seen senior pastors under higher levels of stress. And that is for good reason. The world is changing, ministry is harder, preaching is harder, team building is harder and fundraising is harder. Capturing the attention of lost people is more difficult and people are more broken. So there is a lot going on in a senior pastor's mind.

And despite appearances, we're not as dumb as we look! Pastors know if life change is happening. So when we don't see some indication from parents or kids to that effect, if there is no sign of passionate volunteers in children's ministry, if we can't find obvious evidence of a ministry's alignment with the rest of the church, we will turn our attention to areas that will show that kind of impact.

How would you counsel children's ministry leaders who have a difficult time just getting the attention of, or establishing credibility with, their senior pastor?

As a children's ministry director, you know you must lead down. You have other staff members or volunteers to lead through vision casting and team building. You have to motivate and inspire. You engineer change, and then establish and enforce values. You develop future leaders. Everyone will agree all of this is very important and your responsibility. What most people don't understand, though, is that leadership also requires that you learn to lead up.

What are specific actions that children's ministry leaders can take in leading up to their senior pastor? And how are these effective?

First and foremost, it requires relationships. You can't lead up well unless it is to a person who knows you and knows your heart. That's been true with Sue Miller (Willow Creek's Promiseland Executive Director) and me. When she has a big issue and says, "Bill, I don't bother you much but this is one where I need to ask for some time," then I trust her. So build a relationship that respects your pastor's time. Leading up also requires you to use influence and cast vision so the person you report to can see a picture he or she might not see now.

Unfortunately, when most pastors see a children's ministry director coming, the only vision they see is someone who wants more: more staff, more square footage, more toys, more diapers, or more money. So try this—say to your senior pastor, "Could I have 30 minutes of your time; I'll bring the meal or buy the lunch. I'm not going to ask you for more money, more staff, more anything. I just want to paint a picture of the children's ministry we are dreaming up, and I want to show you what a huge win it will be for the whole church." Now you are talking the senior pastor's language.

Sue sells me on vision all the time. If we are walking out to our cars together after a Sunday service, she'll say, "I met about six new families. Their kids love Promiseland. Their parents will be back." That's code meaning I ought to like what they are doing because it helps me, too. Pastors need to see that if children's ministry wins during the services, then there is a much stronger likelihood that new families are going to come back. So talk often about this win/win situation.

What would you say to people whose senior pastors are resistant to someone leading up?

Take an honest look at how you are trying to lead up. Do you go to the pastor's door constantly? Do you send frequent pleas for financial help? Think relational intelligence. When is the last time you wrote a word of encouragement to the senior pastor for the content or delivery of his message? When is the last time you said, "Most of the time I am in the children ministry, but I really honor your teaching for our entire church body." Back that statement up by making sure that your ministry volunteers serve at one weekend service and attend another.

What communication do you like to regularly receive from your children's ministry?

An information loop is very important. At least one time a week, I'd suggest writing a personal note to the senior pastor telling him about some good thing going on in children's ministry. "We've added another volunteer this week and thought you'd want to know and rejoice with us." Or, "Had a kid pray for the first time in 4th grade—first time he ever prayed out loud. Just wanted you to know that there probably is a family celebrating this." Maybe try, "Just want you to know that I think you do a great job and I'm proud to be on your staff." And definitely, "You'll never know how grateful we were for your mention of children's ministry this weekend." Authentic affirmation and encouragement go a long way.

Describe what you and other senior pastors want to see in your children's ministry director.

I look at the "non-spectacular" side that many folks never see. Does he or she show up with work gloves and work boots on and work hard? You don't have to change your personality, IQ, or anything else to do that. Just show up with a monstrous work ethic to build a children's ministry. Secondly, I look for a flat out passion for kids. You don't get that from a college degree, and you don't have to become any smarter or funnier. You can just be you and be passionate about kids. When you love kids when no one is looking, God's going to use you. And that goes for volunteers, too.

Copyright © 2005 Promiseland.

Read more from 'Leadership'

Words Kids Need to Hear To Help Them Be Who God Made Them to Be by David Staal If you could choose just seven statements to share with children, what would they be? Each chapter in this compelling book focuses on a single statement elementary-age kids need to hear from parents, children's workers, and other close adults. These seven statements are simple to share, yet guaranteed to profoundly impact children. They are: I believe in you. You can count on me. I treasure you. I'm sorry, please forgive me. Because. No. I love you. will educate, equip, and motivate parents and children's ministry teams to carefully choose words that building up kids' hearts, to say them frequently, and to do so in creative ways. What children hear from trusted adults significantly influences their self-image, their current relationships, and future relationships—including that all-important relationship with God.