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Did Jerry Falwell's attempt to reach out to gays seem encouraging within the gay community?

Cullen: By and large, very much so. Some people wondered about his sincerity, though I think that's a pretty weak response. He had nothing to gain. Plus, the way he talked about it seemed sincere. I've always had a real problem with evangelicals who have said, "Love the sinner, hate the sin," because they would also then say horrible things about gays. I was only seeing the "Hate the sin" part. Falwell used that quote again, but he added, "We've been saying 'Love the sinner,' but we need to really mean that." He was saying that he had to live it. To the degree there was negativity about Falwell's gesture, it was either by people who didn't believe his sincerity or who thought, Well, that's one guy. What about the rest? If we can get that kind of gesture from other evangelicals, we'll really be getting somewhere.

What do you think we could do to communicate "Love the sinner" more effectively?

Cullen: In an op-ed piece about Matthew Shepard, I said that if pastors aren't ever saying anything positive about gays, that sends a message to their communities that it's OK to hate gays. If some people already have hateful feelings toward gays and there isn't anything from the pulpit that challenges that, it's easy to think, Well, my preacher feels the same way.I was really moved by a pastor here who made statements at Bible studies and at church against Fred Phelps, stating that what he stands for isn't right (see "Called to Hate?" CT, Oct. 25, 1999). Life is precious and it is inexcusable to beat someone to death. We each have our own mission that God, our Creator--or whoever made us--put us here to do. We have no right to take that from someone else by killing them. A congregation hearing the minister saying that it's not OK to beat up or mistreat gay people will bring a lot more balance.

Oudemolen: I'd say it's wrong because there's an objective standard outside of me, God's law, that says this is wrong. It is the same objective standard that compels me to conclude that homosexuality is wrong and to talk about faith in exclusive terms that might offend. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father but by me." In this culture, that message can come across as threatening. I don't want to threaten you. I want to accept and love and touch you with the love of Christ. But you have to understand that while you may disagree with my message, you can still be OK with me.

We also need to ask, What compelled Matthew Shepard's killers to do what they did? Maybe evangelicals could lend something to the cultural conversation that asks the haunting questions about the nature of evil.

Oudemolen: I hope this doesn't sound whiny, but this is not a culture that is going to turn to theologians or pastors for answers. You read the print coverage on Columbine and look at the things in the national media, and it's all about peripheral issues--gun control, or where the memorial is going to be built, and so on. These are legitimate things. But a year later, I'm still asking, Why wasn't this a wake-up call? We've got to face the fact that there's a spiritual reality out here.

Cullen: A lot of me wishes we had more open discussion about theological issues in this culture. But the public isn't doing that because it's afraid of the theological community. And this helped me see why a lot of evangelicals are afraid of the so-called "gay agenda." I roll my eyes at that phrase because I don't have any agenda, except not wanting to get beaten up. But I am able to see more and more that the feeling among evangelicals toward gays is "OK, if we give these people an inch they're going to want to go all the way." Some probably think it's reasonable to let gay partners have health insurance, but then the problem becomes, what will be next?The perception is the same when it comes to how outsiders, especially gays, view evangelicals. A lot of people probably have the inkling to go to church but are afraid they will feel under siege, or they imagine Christians want to set up a theocracy like the Puritan colonies in Massachusetts. The larger question for the evangelical churches is, How do they get their message out without coming across as threatening?Still, when bad things happen, people want to know how to interpret spiritual activity in this world. It is especially disorienting for those who don't have the vocabulary or a category for these matters. I know that has been true about Columbine.

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July 10 2000, Vol. 44, No. 8