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Early in the interview, we asked him a general question about Christian influence on society. For Otis, not enough Christians were living like Christians, at least outside their homes, and communities were not organized around Christian principles. We asked him what signs of this he saw in the community.

To get a good job or a good promotion in his city, Otis says, the level of formal education a person has is not nearly as important as being part of the good old boy system. He says he sees people and businesses take advantage of vulnerable people, such as single mothers, because they do not have enough clout. They are outside the network of power. He also sees racial segregation in many forms: "In this town, the most segregated hour is 11 o'clock on Sunday morning. … And not only that, even when 5 o'clock comes, the people leave their jobs, they pick up the same way of thinking."

He brought up a school debate going on in many communities nationwide. Should schools be integrated at the cost of busing long distances? Or should children go to local schools, even if that means segregation? Otis at first sounds like many white Americans in his response to the issue: "I don't think a kid from one end of the county should be bused to the other. I'm sorry, I can't go along with that."

But Otis's next words take a different direction:

I can't go along with segregation either. For example, say on the west side of town scores are higher, so everyone wants to send their kids to that school. But because a kid is on that side, and the school is located on that side, the only way you can go to that school is because you live over there. … To me, that's discrimination and segregation. … that's just the society we live in.

"What do you think committed Christians should do about these things?" we asked.

"The only way you're going to do it is through prayer. But we also have a moral obligation to speak out whenever possible. Let them know where you stand. And not be a part of it. Don't lend a hand to the situation."

Off tape, after the formal interview had ended, Otis recounted many serious incidents of discrimination he had experienced. He shared incidents from his youth, such as the things he saw done by the Ku Klux Klan. He talked about his difficult times in the Army, where he was often treated viciously by superiors, made to do more work, not promoted, insulted and ridiculed more than others, or simply ignored. And he talked about his life since the Army, where he sees and experiences segregation, discrimination, and inequality. Despite all the personal turmoil he has experienced on account of his race, he tells himself it is not individual people, but Satan warping systems and people to harm one another.

Wilfred, an American Indian and a new Christian living in a large West Coast city, also has much to say about the race problem. Though our study focused on black-white relations, we include his story to illustrate the larger dynamics shaping people's assessments of race relations.

When we asked Wilfred if he thinks our country has a race problem, he laughed. The obviousness of the question strikes him as funny. A former drug dealer, he is currently homeless. Since his religious conversion, a true metamorphosis has occurred. Refusing to make money through criminal activity, having few marketable skills, and carrying a burden for his former "associates" and "clients," Wilfred spends many of his days walking the streets of the poor neighborhoods where he used to deal drugs. He works occasional day jobs and spends the rest of his time using whatever tactics he can to keep people from buying and selling drugs—including scaring young kids away, acting as a secret informant to the police, and witnessing to drug runners about the need to turn their lives around.

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October 2 2000, Vol. 44, No. 11