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"Is Christianity Good for the World?"
From: Douglas Wilson
To: Christopher Hitchens
Re: Is Christianity Good for the World?
Part 2
I am glad that you found my response mildly amusing. I am also grateful we share an appreciation for Wodehouse. And I am extremely glad that you would like me to begin talking about the death of Christ for sinwhich I fully intend to do. But the pattern the New Testament gives us is to address the need for repentance first and then to talk about the need for faith in Christ as Savior. Within the boundaries of our discussion, repentance would be necessary because you have embraced the internal contradictions of atheism, all for the sake of avoiding God (Rom. 1:21; Ps. 14:1-2). So we will get to the gospel, but I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to hold your horses.
So, back to the business at hand, the business of intellectual repentance. Dismissing something as casuistry is not the same thing as a demonstration of casuistry, and refusing to answer questions because the other guy is being evasive is quite a neat trick if you can pull it off.
I am afraid you misconstrued my acknowledgement thatwith regard to public civic lifeatheists can certainly behave in a moral manner. My acknowledgement was not that morality has nothing to do with the supernatural, as you represented, but rather that morality has nothing to do with the supernatural if you want to be an inconsistent atheist. Here is that point again, couched another way and tied into our topic of debate.
Among many other reasons, Christianity is good for the world because it makes hypocrisy a coherent concept. The Christian faith certainly condemns hypocrisy as such, but because there is a fixed standard, this makes it possible for sinners to fail to meet it or for flaming hypocrites to pretend that they are meeting it when they have no intention of doing so. Now my question for you is this: Is there such a thing as atheist hypocrisy? When another atheist makes different ethical choices than you do (as Stalin and Mao certainly did), is there an overarching common standard for all atheists that you are obeying and which they are not obeying? If so, what is that standard and what book did it come from? Why is it binding on them if they differ with you? And if there is not a common objective standard which binds all atheists, then would it not appear that the supernatural is necessary in order to have a standard of morality that can be reasonably articulated and defended?
So I am not saying you have to believe in the supernatural in order to live as a responsible citizen. I am saying you have to believe in the supernatural in order to be able to give a rational and coherent account of why you believe yourself obligated to live this way. In order to prove me wrong here, you must do more than employ words like "casuistry" or "evasions"you simply need to provide that rational account. Given atheism, objective morality follows how?
The Christian faith is good for the world because it provides the fixed standard which atheism cannot provide and because it provides forgiveness for sins, which atheism cannot provide either. We need the direction of the standard because we are confused sinners. We need the forgiveness because we are guilty sinners. Atheism not only keeps the guilt, but it also keeps the confusion.
Douglas Wilson
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Konstantin
Apologia, you asked: "How can one have an ever evolving world, yet fixed principles?" Only an ignorant person can believe in fixed moral principles. Morality has been evolving ever since human civilizations emerged. Just look back 50 years, and you will see how attitudes toward racism have changed in the United States. That is an example of the evolution of morality. Now take a look two thousand years back, and you will find plenty of nasty things in the Bible that you would no longer subscribe to. Do you really believe God ordered the Jews to wipe out nations and cities, including infants? Do you really believe God is pro-slavery? Do you really believe women are inferior to men? Do you really believe children should be stoned to death for disobedience? These are the clear teachings of your Bible, and yet you and I will agree that they are poisonous and cruel. So the Bible certainly does not provide "fixed principles," and indeed such principles do not exist.
hasty toweling
apologia, claiming to have a rational basis for your ethics is different from actually having one. You say Christians have one, but this is really contingent on Christianity being the One True Religion. Muslims believe that Christians are morally wrong just for having their beliefs - - they are all going to Hell. So, before you can assert your fixed moral standard, you have to demonstrate, in some way, shape or form, that Muslims, all 1 billion of them, are wrong. But even that won't do it. You also have to explain why all of the other religions are wrong. But even that won't do it. You still have to give some reason why Christianity is True. The closest anyone on this comment thread came to doing this was to say the Yahweh is humble -- needless to repeat, I'm not convinced by this. Until some reason is given why Christianity is factually true, all talk about morals and logic being based on it is completely empty. Why are you so certain that you're right and all Muslims arent?
Hasty Toweling
Kosmiceggburst, your post is possibly the silliest and most ignorant thing ever written. All of the "new athiests" (Dawkins, Harris, Dennet, and Hitchens) rail into Islam even more than Christianity. Islam is all of the worst aspects of Christianity multiplied by 10. You could actually try reading one of their books (or any book for matter) before presenting an "observation". Christianity gets more attention because it is more prominent in our country. Your idea that Theism = Christianity would be hilarious if I didn't think that you actually meant it. Have you heard of Hinduism? For Christ's sake man, you're making yourself look stupid here.