This is often a problem with fast going modern churches. No-one wants to be a fun spoiler at the beginning because all are caught up in the vision/fun. < Most surprising to Hybels and Hawkins was the response of "fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ": They were disappointed with the church. They "are not being fed." They want "more of the meat of the Word of God." They want "more serious-minded Scripture taught to them." The church is not helping them grow spiritually, and, says Hawkins, "increasingly, these folks are thinking about leaving the church." > But after a while many fully devoted followers are not happy with aggressive evangelism coupled with aggressive building building which needs many administrators but like a good flock say nothing. Then along comes a survey so all could put aside pet sufferings and be totally honest. Good for the leadership to do this and I do not have an answer for those who feel they have made a mistake in original choice to follow a star.

I think mentoring or some other form of accountability relationship is the key for maturing Christians. I didn't get it at my last church, and never formally/institutionally in any church I've ever been a part of. The pastor knew it, he was always striving to find a group of men he could mentor. But a mentor isn't passive. Does he let you not show up for church for three weeks in a row? No. We need someone to come along side and help us grow. I don't think we ever lose the need for a parenting/mentoring relationship. People need a relationship with a person that will kick them in the rear, call them on shirking, challenge them to grow, etc. Theology etc can be learned out of a book if needed, practical day to day living takes both personal activities such as reading, prayer and devotionals, and someone regularly talking/observing/etc. Does the church care I exist? Where was my elder? Who cared? No one. I will never stop being a son, I will always have a father need.

While I appreciate the interpretaion of the survey, the fact that it was taken reveals the course of the "church" in America. That folks consider leaving a particular church in hopes of "getting fed" at another is unheard of in the rest of the world. Fewer choices create appreciation for the extras. This is not a Willow Creek issue; it is an issue of self-entitlement that is culturally driven and carries over into the church where the separation of self should occur. Churches have begun to cater to the individual rather then the concept of Christianity. We've gone past reaching people where they are and have begun to submit to their approval rating. Certainly pastors are responsible to recognize the hearts of the congregants and aim his message at change or growth of the individual so the entity s a whole benefits. People leave churches for personal reasons, not because their spiritual stomachs are empty. They have the utensils to feed themselves, but lack the passion for Christ.

8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

"The more mature we become in Jesus, the less we try to measure or chart or describe "my spiritual growth." Instead, we are called to think less about ourselves and more about God. We're less interested in what the self is experiencing and more interested in the Jesus we're serving. The self, including the spiritual self, is increasingly crucified." Also called "spiritual growth" :) I think there's a happy medium. People should become self-feeders. They should look for ways to serve, not ways to be served. But they also will still need guidance from more mature believers. What I think was going on at Willow Creek is that people were neither taught to be self-learners nor being fed food for maturing believers.