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I look forward to your response.

All good to you,

YEP

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Guthrie's Second Response

Rabbi Poupko,

First, I must disagree with you that evangelicals are opposed to your faith identity, that we want to make you "Christians." I believe that while this may have been true among some of us at various times in the past, there is a growing recognition among us that Christianity is Jewish, and many Jewish people who choose to follow the teacher from Nazareth make a perfectly valid decision to continue identifying as Jews. Personally, I believe Jewish people who believe in Jesus remain Jewish and should be considered Jews in good standing by the Jewish community. It is tragic that they often are not.

You talked in another e-mail about your joy in being a grandfather. I look forward to this joy one day! You love your grandson for who he is, of course. But if he were on the wrong track concerning a particular but critical aspect of his life and you wanted to correct him and put him on the right path, I doubt seriously that you would simply accept his protest that he has a right to be loved the way he wants to be loved. No, your love would compel you to tell him the truth because he is hurting himself. Such is our love for the Jewish people. We do love you for who you are, but love sometimes compels us to say uncomfortable but necessary things. Yes, it would be easier for all concerned for us to keep our mouths shut on evangelism, but we love you too much for that.

Concerning other historical uses of Romans 1:16 beyond its obvious evangelistic intent I must sadly claim ignorance. That's how I meant it, and how evangelicals mean it today. Yes, words often are twisted, in a variety of contexts, and not just in Jewish-Christian relations. I would welcome your directing me to some of these historical examples.

While the Jewish history of suffering is unique, Christians know something of being persecuted too in many parts of the world. We don't take your suffering lightly. This is an important issue, and we want to do the right thing. We try to use our words with care. But we cannot always know how history will take what we have said, for good or ill. All we can do is prayerfully attempt our best, be clear, ask for forgiveness, and keep going. Should persecution again visit the Jews, I think it is safe to assume we will stand beside you, as I know you will us.

As a student of world missions, I believe sometimes we Christians must change our tactics to fit conditions. Flexibility is a virtue in missions, and this includes how we approach Jews. But flexibility cannot trump core convictions, one of which is that all people groups need Jesus.

I find in the Jewish people an illustration of God's love for them and the world. Their presence, through many trials, strengthens and encourages my faith. It makes me stand in awe of God's grace in the face of evil, and I am humbled by the resilience of the human spirit as exhibited so clearly by Jewish people. As I said, we have much to learn from you.

I could say more, but I don't wish to debate a renowned Jewish theologian and look foolish. If I have said anything offensive, please forgive me. I am ignorant of many things. May God continue to guide and encourage you in the days ahead. Just to let you know, my friendship with you (if I may be so bold as to call you a friend) is not based on your turning to Jesus, though of course I hope one day you do.

SG

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Poupko's Third Response

Dear Stan,

Good to hear from you. Thank you for your kind words. Since we last exchanged notes our sacred calendars have given us the gift of sacred times. You have celebrated Good Friday and Easter. We the Jewish people have celebrated Purim. Your personal compliment is appreciated. However, to paraphrase Amos, I am neither a "renowned Jewish theologian," nor the son of one, just a Jew who studies Torah, the son of generations of Jewish believers who have studied Torah.

And now let me come to the heart of it. As I read it in your last note, the Jewish people are here to serve your faith purposes. That is the only way that you understand us. Like you, I too am created in the image of God. Like you, I have a God-given obligation to believe and to choose how to believe. But you it seems are capable of understanding me only in your terms. It seems that you are capable of loving and appreciating the Jewish people, only to the extent that they fit into your faith. What is it that made John Paul II one of the greatest witnesses to Christianity since World War II? What made him, in some measure, responsible for bringing about the collapse of Bolshevism and the Soviet Union? It was that he taught and lived a very great lesson, a lesson that he taught to all of Christendom. What he said to Christendom was, before you can witness to Christ, you have to witness to the human dignity of every individual.

Stan, your belief that it is tragic that we do not consider Jews who believe in Jesus to be Jews in good standing is quite problematic. Only you a Christian can define what it means to be a Christian. Only I a Jew can define what it means to be Jewish. For a Jew to come to Christ is to cease to be a member of the Jewish community. That is the decision of the Jewish people and the Jewish community. A Jew who decides to believe in Christ has rejected the most fundamental principles of the Torah, especially:

The Lord spoke to you out of the fire; you heard the sound of words but perceived no shape — nothing but a voice. He declared to you the covenant that He commanded you to observe, the Ten Commandments; and He inscribed them on two tablets of stone. At the same time the Lord commanded me to impart to you laws and rules for you to observe in the land that you are about to cross into and occupy. For your own sake, therefore, be most careful — since you saw no image when the Lord your God spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. (Deuteronomy 4:12-15)

In addition, he or she has betrayed his and her very own flesh, father, mother, brother, and sister. They cannot be considered Jews in good standing by the Jewish community. Is it acceptable for us to call it tragic that many Christians do not deem Unitarian Universalists to be Christian, even if they want the rubric, but do not accept the divinity of Jesus? In the main, we have achieved understanding with some evangelicals about proselytizing, but your statement about Jews who have become Christians complicates the issue. Proselytizing is part of the exercise of free speech in this country. The marketplace of ideas can surely deal with it. We the Jewish people object to aggressive and deceptive proselytizing. Quite simply, it is deceptive to represent a Christian congregation as Jewish. That is bearing false witness. We must both live by that Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Just as only you can define what it means to be a Christian, only the Jewish community can define what it means to be a Jew.

Based on the principle, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," I turn now to your second paragraph, especially its last sentence: "Yes, it would be easier for all concerned for us to keep our mouths shut on evangelism, but we love you too much for that." Tell me how this Jewish rewrite of that sentence sounds to you:

It would be much easier for all concerned Jews to keep our mouths shut on the truth and purity of monotheism, but we love you Christians who are struggling to know the One God, too much, just too much, to remain silent. You are "on the wrong track," and you are "hurting" yourselves. Come join us and live the life of mitzvot so that you may know the One God as we of the Sinai Covenant do in full relationship without any intermediary.

How would this sound to you? How would you think and how would you feel? And is this something that advances evangelical-Jewish relations?

As I write these lines, I have before me a picture of my eight grandchildren: Shmuel Meir, who is nine, his twin sisters, Ayelet and Atara, who are six; Amitai, five years old, his brothers, Erez, three, and Gadi, sixteen months; Sarah, eighteen months, and their youngest cousin, Ayelet, thirteen months.

Let's please continue our conversation. Indeed we had several good conversations this morning on the phone, which tells me that we will get to know each other ever better. I am sure that we will soon meet. But whatever you do, and whatever you say about Judaism and about the Jewish people, I ask you this: Please make sure that your words bring no harm to these grandchildren of mine, and to their children's children who like their grandparents, and great-grandparents before them are believers, children of generations of believers, and soon with God's help to be parents of generations of believers. Please make sure you do them no harm.

Best wishes,

YEP

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A Postscript from Mr. Stan Guthrie and Rabbi Yehiel E. Poupko:

Dear Reader,

Thank you for taking the time to immerse yourself in our several exchanges. The issues that we discuss are of ultimate importance. The two of us have just begun to get to know each other. Indeed, our relationship is not that much younger than the Jewish-evangelical relationship in America. We view our exchange as a positive one. We have enjoyed talking with each other on the phone and exchanging e-mails. We look forward to meeting and to getting to know each other better. It is not always easy to get to know someone, especially when the context is faith and the very purpose of being itself. The expression of our faith commitments has been stated in precise and faithful language. Our differences are clear and at times stark. However, we emerge from this correspondence in friendship, and no one should mistake our engagement as being anything other than that. Indeed the two of us encourage Jews and evangelicals to continue to have such open exchanges. At times, in order to become friends, it is necessary to say firm things.

God's blessings to all of you.

YEP and SG

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Previous articles about evangelism to the Jewish people include:

Interview with a Pharisee—and a Christian | How two believers of two faiths talk to one another with conviction and civility. (October 12, 2007)

Kosher Cooperation | Jewish elites broker new relations with evangelicals. (October 1, 2003)

Editor's Bookshelf: The Church's Hidden Jewishness | In the Shadow of the Temple illumines Hebrew thinking in a Greek world (Sept. 15, 2003)

Editor's Bookshelf: 'Normalizing' Jewish Believers | How should Christianity's Jewish heritage change how Gentiles relate to their faith? An interview with Oskar Skarsaune (Sept. 15, 2003)

Christ via Judaism | Lauren Winner's spiritual journey is an invaluable—and, to some, unsettling—reminder of where we came from (July 7, 2003)

Weblog: Messianic Jews in Canada Lose Appeal to Use Menorah Logo (June 26, 2003)

A Christian Studies Torah | Athol Dickson's The Gospel According to Moses encourages exploration of Jewish roots (May 14, 2003)

Weblog: Christian Seders Accused of Being Anti-Jewish | We're waiting for Elijah, not Jesus, say Jews (Apr. 28, 2003)

Do Jews Really Need Jesus? | What evangelicals believe about evangelization of the Jews—and whether the Holocaust makes a difference in that task (Oct. 8, 1990, reposted Aug. 16, 2002)

The Chosen People Puzzle | When it comes to relating to the Jewish people, should we dialogue, cooperate, or evangelize? (Mar 5, 2001)

Is Evangelism Possible Without Targeting? | The founder of Jews for Jesus responds to Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein (Jan. 14, 2000)

Can I Get a Witness? | Southern Baptists rebuff critics of Chicago evangelism plan. (Jan. 14, 2000)

Witnessing vs. Proselytizing | A rabbi's perspective on evangelism targeting Jews, and his alternative (Dec. 3, 1999)

To the Jew First? | Southern Baptists defend new outreach effort (Nov. 15, 1999)

How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend | The amazing story of Christian efforts to create and sustain the modern nation of Israel. (Oct. 5, 1998)

The Return of the Jewish Church | In 1967, there were no Messianic Jewish congregations in the world. Today there are 350. Who are these believers? (Sept. 7, 1998)

Mapping the Messianic Jewish World (Sept. 7, 1998)

Did Christianity Cause the Holocaust? | No, despite what a biased film at the tax-supported Holocaust Museum implies (Apr. 27, 1998)

Is Jewish-Christian a Contradiction in Terms? (April 7, 1997)

Jews Oppose Baptist Outreach (Nov. 11, 1996)

Christmas and the Modern Jew | Christians often seem to lack both good missionary strategies toward Jews and sensitivity to their situation in life (Dec. 8, 1958)

Graham Feted By American Jewish Committee | In 1977, Graham walked a fine line between in his work 'to proclaim the Gospel to Jew and Gentile.' (Nov. 18, 1977)

To the Jew First | Witnessing to the Jews is nonnegotiable. (Aug. 11, 1997)

Billy Graham: 'I have never felt called to single out the Jews' | The evangelist discusses targeted evangelism in one of his most quoted statements (March 16, 1973)

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April (Web-only) 2008, Vol. 52