Hey Scott: First thing: back up, hoss, and re-read my previous post. "Your suggestions that I don't believe humans have a soul and that I haven't studied the bible are baseless." First, I said "I think your real issue is not so much with the "when" as much as it is with the 'if'." In other words I was trying to clarify the issue - not what you personally believe - altho I do wonder why you believe in a soul. Second, I said, "You assume there is ensoulment to begin with." So...what's the problem there? And then I encouraged you to read and meditate on God's word. How is that challenging your biblical knowledge? And then you said, "...when you move to legalize your belief (and how can you not)?" Scott, let me be perfectly clear: If nominated I will not run; if elected I will not serve. (Sheesh! And I thought we were getting along so well.)

Your suggestions that I don't believe humans have a soul and that I haven't studied the bible are baseless. At least you're using "in my opinion" language, conceding that this is your belief. Americans are free to believe what we choose. I've been fairly polite in this space but get ready for a brutal fight with the rest of America when you move to legalize your belief (and how can you not)? If you learned anything from the creationism fiasco, you will have to completely secularize your argument. This is your only shot because our constitution prevents theocracy. Secular consensus is necessary and if your argument is effective, anything is possible. Our laws already hold that an unborn child is a human being (Scott Peterson, et al). I concur and expect you would agree that this is the correct direction. Will society move all the way to life at conception? It’s not impossible, unless the only rationale is based in scriptural invective, in which case religious freedom will prevail.

"...your Jeremia reference tells me a human being is formed in the womb but it does not say when." I think your real issue is not so much with the "when" as much as it is with the "if". You assume there is ensoulment to begin with. Why? Given your line of questioning so far, I would think you would have more problems with the belief in a soul. But of course philosophically you can't prove we even have a soul let alone when ensoulment occurs. In my opinion the bible never addresses ensoulment because it is assumed to occur at conception. My advice, for what its worth: read and meditate on God's word specifically those passages addressing how God views people. We are created in His image. Start here: Genesis 1:27 "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." And keep going. God's only condition for giving you understanding is are you willing to believe and obey.

Biologists do not address the philosophical question of whether an embryo is a human being and your Jeremia reference tells me a human being is formed in the womb but it does not say when. Clearly you should understand by now that I don’t view the scripture as helpful in defining the moment of ensoulment and why should I? The 2000-year church track record here is abysmal, why should I believe you can do better? The Popes and Saints could not agree on this and I don’t expect you and me to agree, nor is agreement my objective. Believe what you will and act accordingly. I applaud that but those who wish to legalize the notion of ensoulment at conception need to be prepared to explain to the rest of us, who are not so sure, exactly how we will need to behave to protect fertilized eggs that would be considered human beings. I understand the moral comfort of holding that life begins at conception but the biology presents thorny barriers and my desire for answers is sincere… Anyone?

"Today we issue the certificate at birth." God said in Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." "But if you contend that a fertilized egg is a human being then what’s your plan to codify the concept?" Well, you got me there. I don't even have tomorrow planned out let alone a plan to codify the concept of ensoulment at conception. "Because if you are not prepared to act as though an embryo were a human being then maybe you don’t really believe it." (People always acting...act up, act out, act accordingly, act right, act stupid, act your age...etc. Now you want "to act as though".) When my wife found she was "with child" 25 years ago, I "acted as though" she had a real human baby inside her womb. No, actually, it wasn't an act. I danced around the house and acted a fool - well, that probably wasn't an act either. But you get my drift.