Christianity Today

Rick, On the apostles, you bring up a good point that I wrote a 25 page paper on so I understand the problem well. Nowhere does God tell us apostles will continue. The list you give is not complete and apostles are very visible and known (they are appointed and not ignored by God). An invisible apostle throughout the centuries is an oxymoron. You're free to believe as you wish but that doesn't mean your beliefs fit with Scripture. Using a couple loose references that give no context as 'proof' of continued apostleship today is poor hermeneutics at best and brings poor interpretation.

Rick, Paul wrote those words, yes. The problem is that 1 Corinthians 12 is not addressed as how to 'order the house of God' as 1 Timothy and Titus are instructed as. 1 Cor 12 is about the GENERAL gifts given to the church body, NOT organizing the house of God or church leadership. "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." Notice how it is about the common good, not to be the order of leadership or what needs to be taught. Now we see something else just as important, "All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually has He wills." Context is the key to knowing what God tells us in His word and the context is not about officials, church offices and the ordering of His house.

Paul writes that, “God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.” All of these ministries are equally appointed and normative with no indication that any gifting would cease. Timothy is called an Evangelist, gifted by the Holy Spirit and was trained on the job by Paul. In fact, most preaching in the New Testament is evangelistic and occurs outside the church. Teaching, exhortation and prophecy occurs inside the church. Why do you say, there is no promise of healers in the church when Paul says, God has appointed in the church gifts of healing”? He makes clear in verse 29 and 30 that these are people with ministries in the church. By the way, I count 19 apostles in the New Testament, including Matthias, James the brother of Jesus, Paul, Barnabas, Andronicus, Junias, Apollos. I believe many have functioned as apostles through the ages without ever bearing the title

We see those that are called to be prophets raised up and recognized by the local church body but there is no office mentioned. Same with evangelists. Healers are mentioned but again, there is no promise of healers being in the church. As to apostles, there is no evidence of apostles after those noted and written of in the Scriptures. None of this means that the gifts have ceased by any means but there is no promised continuation of most of the gifts (although Peter does speak about prophets in the last days starting during the Acts church time period) throughout all of the church's history. There is a difference between what is recorded as normative (elders and deacons) and what is spoken of as being gifts given by the Spirit AS HE DEEMS, not promised continuation. As to prophets and healers being ignored, that is not true. They are ignored in some circles but the fastest growing part of the evangelical church is the more 'Pentecostal' portion and it is no longer some minority.

Hi Rick, Leadership Journal is not a bad thing by any means. What the issue really comes down to is the American person who happens to go to 'church.' We desire a preacher. Most church organizations in America "outside of the Roman and Orthodox Catholics, Amish, Bretheren and some others) have structures built on the individual right and freedom model that makes leadership elected by the flock. As to colleges turning out preachers - they do but they also turn out teachers and those who understand eldership (as this was how I was trained at an evangelical college while being trained in Pastoral Ministry). On the idea of training evangelists and prophets, the concept is not one I find biblical at all. Evangelists utilize the same skills taught with preaching, only the context is different (much like the difference between a preacher and an elder - related but not the same). There is no evidence of a NT prophet needing to be taught, nor an evangelist for that matter. Continued..