Guest / Limited Access /

For Tim Tebow, speaking at the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas, had to look like a great opportunity. He grew up attending a large Southern Baptist church, and an invitation to speak at one of the most venerable and historic Baptist churches ...

Read More

Displaying 1–132 of 132 comments

Buck Finster

January 11, 2014  1:57am

There is an underlying principle to which most are not privy in the proscription of homosexuality in the teachings of the prophets; including those of Yeshua ben Yosef. I have found that faith is exemplified in obedience first. In other words, if you really are a person of faith; and you should count how many times Christ decried having a lack of faith and praised faith in his followers. I would that my own children first be obedient because it may not be possible to convey to them why they should follow a particular law that I set down for them. For example, they don't understand anything at all about being killed if they cross the road in front our our country home that sits upon a spur so that in crossing they are not likely to be seen by cars speeding along that road. They have no conception of the danger nor what it means to be killed. I would rather that they fear the gruff voice I use when I command them to never approach the road without mom or dad holding their hand.

Report Abuse

Phil Blackstone

March 17, 2013  10:28pm

Yes, the Social Progressives are on the attack. They want to rationalize murder (abortion), normalize sodomy (gay marriage) and neutralize/stigmatize religious freedom. Lovingly holding the line will require all the grace God can give us.

Dan from Georgia

March 09, 2013  7:11pm

Pilgrim Progress...I don't think it is appropriate to suggest that Tim Tebow is gay. It is just pure insinuation and speculation. Let us (not just you but everyone who engages in this kind of speculation) drop the whole "he is single so he must be gay" baloney. Not saying that you personally Pilgrim Progress are making that kind of insinuation, but as a person myself who married "late" in like (late = early 40s), it is rather offensive.

Jim Ricker

March 09, 2013  6:19pm

Amen Ruth on the speculation comment. Pilgrim Progress' post is a prime example of Luke 6: The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. Spouting accusations of evil-doing against someone else without any proof is evil. Repent PP.

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

March 09, 2013  3:33pm

No one here really knows why Tim Tebow cancelled that engagement. Any guesses are sheer speculation

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

March 09, 2013  3:32pm

Pilgrim, hate and judgment are very evident in your post re: Tim Tebow and Jeffress. God is the only Righteous Judge, we will all be judged by His Word, and He has made it ultra-clear in HIs Word that all immorality is abhorrent in His sight. Adulterers and prostitutes who came to Jesus ceased their immorality -- He told them to "Go and sin no more." This is His position regarding anyone who commits immorality of any kind.

Report Abuse

A Peter Troedson

March 09, 2013  11:55am

Albert, very good article. I am reminded the early Christians had a choice between say "Ceasar is Lord", or being killed as a traitor to Rome. They responded, "Jesus is Lord", even though it cost them. May we always be faithful to His word.

Report Abuse

Pilgrim Progress

March 09, 2013  1:39am

Tim Tebow is very likely laboring over being a Closeted Gay Man. Leave him alone. He will soon learn that the Evangelicals he keeps company with will tear out his throat if he is gay, or just not willing to sign on to their extremely angry and offensive bigotry. Jeffress is the Pharisee of the story. The loud mouthed Pharisee who has little spiritual values or gifts.

Pilgrim Progress

March 09, 2013  1:34am

Let's face some facts here. It is NOT true that Evangelicals all have the same view and beliefs about homosexuality, the bible, or Equal Rights. Increasingly, with more and more eduction, experience with meeting and understanding LGBT people, we find that there is NO truth to the ignorant, xenophobic, 2000 year old myths and biases against them. They are NOT animals, child molesters, Godless, disobedient to parents, mentally ill, or different in any way, except that their Natural orientation is different. They are not Bad Citizens (ask George H.W. Bush who had to hide his secret research about gays in the military, which unabashedly reported that they are Exemplary soldiers and citizens) To demand that they "change" is unnatural and destructive. We are almost at the understanding among Evangelicals that we have been persecuting them in ignorance. Do not presume to know what God had in mind when he created LGBT people, in EVERY culture, nation, and civilization.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 07, 2013  12:46pm

Jim, thanks for your comment, but I would like to say that I no longer have issues with Charles.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 07, 2013  10:59am

Now there's another organization called "Faithful America" that is demanding that Tebow cancel his up-coming speaking engagement at Liberty University. These guys are a small band of radical leftists with an internet presence - who describe themseves as "...people of Faith , banded together, to....counter hate speech and misinformation in the media pertaining to people of faith..." "Faithful America", demands it be made clear that Jeffress and other 'haters' - like Liberty University , quit hiding behind Christianity - when they practice hate speech about the nature of homosexuality. "Faithful America" says Liberty University is even worse than Pastor Jeffress. I feel sure Tebow will go to Liberty and ignore this and perhaps the media won't even pick up on it and make an issue out of it. Tebow "probably" wanted to "protect his ministry" from being tarnished as a supporter of 'haters' like Jeffress .....BUT...of course, those that forced Tebow to cancel Jeffress ...also consider EVERY mainline , traditional , bible-believing Church and institution to be nothing more than 'red - necked, homophobe, cretins spouting Christianity'. Liberty University should have rescinded their invitation to Tebow until he supported Pastor Jeffress anyway - another missed opportunity. I bet the anti-Christian , media doesn't even support this call for Tebow's cancellation - because they are satisfied with Tebow's implied castigation of Jeffress and they won't risk that medal and America's impression ...that "real Christians" like Tebow consider Christians to be accepting like Tebow and not haters like 'Jeffress' - the damage has been done. So I don't see the media as really wanting to give Tim another chance to dilute America's view of "Christians as haters" - by raising a second issue here and they'll make no real fuss about Tebow and Liberty.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 06, 2013  8:57pm

Dear Jim : Apparently, Theres a "burr" under your saddle :) Sermonettes ! - insults ! ....MY OH MY....! Dan and I have come to a mutually recognized , long distance, unspoken, internet friendship - ask him . Dan likes me and I like Dan . We understand each other . You on the other hand have been apparently slow roasting for the last 3 days - until you just had to defend Dan's honor. Now you could have used Bethany as a much better Example - because I actually was hard on her - and it's possible that she is everything she claimed and I "could have been softer" on her while being just as clear and scripturely strident - about homosexuality and the Gospel. However, it appeared to me she was interested in - "teaching" - so I went stridently. I do realize- that for a mother to look at a son [even though the kid is probably about 30 years old now] and have him ask his mommy why God doesn't approve of his actions would be a very tough and near haunting experience. But I just have to trust God that if Bethany is truthfull - that she has the ability to shower the kid with love - that is her part. I don't like appearing to - "thunder down" from the Scripture ... and I can go a bit too strong sometimes .... So thanks for giving me the opportunity to mention it - don't worry about Dan - he is just peachy. by the way, If you really feel that you have something important to contribute , in the way of "sermonettes" :) - that's fine with me. (1 Cor. 4:3-4) "...But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

Report Abuse

Jim Ricker

March 06, 2013  7:12pm

I'm probably out of line here but....Charles, you need to just straight up apologize. This means no hemming and hawing and giving excuses for abusing Dan due to some trauma from your "years of dealing with others..." on issues. Just plain repent and ask for forgiveness otherwise it really isn't an apology. You've posted excessively and did so with back-to-back, long-winded sermonettes and just dominated the boards to go along with insulting Dan ignorantly and arrogantly. We ALL sin and fall short and we ALL need to apologize in a manner that is repentant when we sin against someone else. And yes, that includes me as well.

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

March 05, 2013  12:01pm

"ONLY the Word of God is at ALL important when you are walking this ground and you can trust NOTHING else." Amen, Amen, and Amen.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 05, 2013  10:24am

Thanks Charles! Thanks to CT for being able to edit comments, huh!?! God's blessings!

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 04, 2013  8:25pm

Ok Dan :) I was using you as a bit of a 'foil' or 'fall guy' to address and turn the tables on all the 'love' types - by repeating their own attitudes and statements they make when they call for love and not judgement and the usual "lady Gaga" rap about how homosexuals are "born that way". You might also notice that you happened to judge me as making "inappropriate comments" - to people who are making REALLY INAPPROPRIATE comments about how we must all learn to be one Big, Happy, homosexual accepting, spirit indwelt , fellowshipping bunch - and the mystery of it all. If you think what I posted to you was slightly condescending - it's a GOOD thing I edited it 2x before posting it and deleted the one I originally posted - 5 minutes later - with a 'nicer version' :) That you state that you have said NOT ONE THING in support of homosexuality does hearten me and will now make me a little more timid about being aggressive in responding to you. The reason I DO tend to assume things is because I have spent many, many years on the internet - dealing with and defending issues involving Christians and the Word of God vis-a-vis their detractors/critics and haters. I know and have learned from "vast experience" - the tack and purpose of those either directly opposed to the Lord or those earnestly seeking to either overtly or subtly - subvert the Gospel . Trust me - in these areas - It would not be at ALL unusual for Bethany to be a 59 year old man - and honestly ? it is still not at all certain that she is not. This is the internet . I can't tell you the number of "Bethany's" - who argue from her same perspective that ultimately turn out to be either lying about their sexuality or to have been involved in continuing or prior sexual re-assignment surgery and will deny for all eternity that they are not women. They also often have the very most feminine , Christian sounding names :) So Bethany put her story out there , she's sticking to it - it's "probably true" but you'll never know. ONLY the Word of God is at ALL important when you are walking this ground and you can trust NOTHING else.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 04, 2013  7:22pm

Charles, Please do not judge me either. I have not said ONE thing in support of homosexuality. No will I. You came across as condescending in you post to me, and it is not appreciated ok? You and I are brothers in Christ ok? No, I don't know you enough to judge you (I know what the Bible says about judgement and love (love your neighbor as yourself, and only to judge with a right standard/you will be judged the way you judge others), and you don't know me enough to say I am naiive or whatever you want to call me.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 04, 2013  5:22pm

Bethany - on more thing - Sorry to hear about your heart-break with your son. He's likely a nice kid and I'm sure you love him. So you are concerned about him and how he feels the Lord views him. However there is no way that I could ever deny the Cross in sympathy and declare that he must not seek healing and regeneration. I think you will find homosexuals who have and will take the way of the Cross - such WERE some of you. Christians have no problem, whatsoever, with people who are concerned and loving toward 13 year old boys/girls who may be confused about their sexuality , and are saddened if they are made fun of - for 'girlish/mannish' behaviors - Christians have no desire to ever defend that type of callous behaviour towards them - as "Christianity". For others - extreme caution must be exercised - when Special "ministries" for Young people who may be found wondering or even convinced that they are "gay" are started . Beware ! - When those ministries begin to take CARE - never to speak of homosexuality as 'sin' - and begin Labeling that Biblical view as 'unloving' . In seeking to encourage these children that are "ministered to" - they will often be held up as examples that demonstrate that those living under homosexuality - have many "redeeming qualities". While true, the other kids will get the message that .."gee they are people just like me" ..."they are not so bad" ..."why did they tell us homosexuality is sin - they can't help it" ... ....AND SO IT GOES. Little Matthew or Sarah grows up , and raises a family - only to find out at 42 that he or she was - "always suspicious that I was gay all along." The end product ? The acceptance of homosexuality in toto. The "Pastor's Daughter" - Katy Perry will produce videos of "I kissed a Girl and I Liked it" - replete with sexually suggestive winks and lurid looks towards other young girls and even MORE suggestive and plainly spoken lyrics about same-sex behaviours as attractive and innocent. No celebrities will notice as this Video gets 42 million hits on YouTube and many times that around the world. It will lead to untold thousands of young girls playing 'spin the bottle' or experimenting with each other - eventually walking down the streets - proudly holding hands. AND YOU WILL not hear a PEEP ...out of all the "loving" churches with the "special ministries" - you NEVER DO - because they aren't "Haters" - Anything criticial of Katy Perry and "I kissed a Girl and I Liked it" - will be an "out of bounds" discussion in their meetings because such discussions invariably turn out to be - "unloving".

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 04, 2013  4:57pm

Bethany : So you are an activist seeking to include homosexuals in the Church of the Lord . I always assumed that - based on everything you have said. So - It's all been a big mystery - well hidden in Eph Chap 3 - waiting for this End of Days revelation. homosexuals are not particularly abominable at all , God hasn't given them up and they can't help but participate in homosexuality - God or nature made them that way. There's simply been a little scriptural mis-understanding the last 4000 years about the nature , reason for and destiny of homosexuals - and Judaism and Christianity are just now coming to understand the mystery of it all thru the deep and gently moving spirit of god within homosexuals and homosexual activists. Christians and Jews and the Gospel have either been "scripturally un-aware" or Jeffress-like haters" for the last 4000 years. It's a simple anonomly that the Word of God calls homosexuality an "Abomination" in every instance , warns of the separation of men from God in every instance it is practiced and NEVER praised or praises it . So this allows you to twist, as much as you are able , - 1,000 clear scriptures , and slyly veil their applicability and clarity. So - finding nothing in God or His Word that you can use to condone or allows an "escape clause" for the EXTREME scriptural condemnation of homosexuality - ..Except ....declare that "God is love" - you now proclaim this "welcoming and accessible message" for "everyone across the board" - that you found in a mystery in Ephesian chap 3. satan found the same mystery in the garden - "... Eve ? Did God really say you should not eat of the fruit ? - that you would die if you did ? - surely He is mistaken..." ! This is wonderfully good news to animal sexors and murderers who also can't help themselves. Apparently the Lord does not have the Power or Will - to regenerate them either - they aren't ever praised in His Word and are condemned with each mention -also. I don't know what to tell their mothers .

Report Abuse

BETHANY C HOLLAND

March 04, 2013  3:43pm

Charles, I am actually a 58 year old woman, happily married for many years. I'm not, nor have I ever been a lesbian. As a classical musician, I work with many gay and lesbian people in the arts. A few years ago, our youngest son told us he was gay. We were shocked and heartbroken. But Eph. 3:20 says, "God can do anything you know--far more than you could ever imagine or guess or request in your wildest dreams! He does it not by pushing us around but by working within us, his Spirit deeply and gently within us." Also in chapter 3 -- "The mystery is that people who have never heard of God and those who have heard of him all their lives (what I've been calling outsiders and insiders) stand on the same ground before God. They get the same offer, same help, same promises in Christ Jesus. The Message is accessible and welcoming to everyone, across the board." Jesus reached out to all sorts of outsiders. He loved them and then transformed them. I trust Him. Blessings and peace to you.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 04, 2013  1:45pm

Dear Dan from Naivete [I'm trusting that's what it is] - Do not "judge me" - "love me" . It's my "thorn in the flesh" to hew to the clear teachings of the Word of God on the genesis and "abominable nature" of homosexuality and it's purposes in separating men from the Lord. I guess I simply don't have enough "love" - to line up behind the guy in the Red P'J's to defend,shelter and increase the "pew-space" for those tragic homosexuals - who are being unmercifully persecuted by those sinning, hypocritical Christians. I guess I was "born this way" - on the day the Lord brought salvation. I hope you can understand how men get to be in such a state as to think homosexuality is an evil and 'satanic' attack on the very Nature and Creation of the Lord and exactly where they could get such an idea. :)

Dan from Georgia

March 04, 2013  4:53am

Charles commentator..your comments towards Bethany and Wesley are inappropriate. That is all I want to say.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 04, 2013  4:47am

Jim Ricker, that is a good point. I am sure there are people here who have caved in to worldly pressure and would appreciate being treated with mercy. Some can call me naiive, but the fact is that we don't know for sure Tim's motive for cancelling his speaking engagement.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 04, 2013  4:35am

Bethany - So we are to "love one another" and not "judge one another" . Beautifull. You described the author of the book you recommended , Wesely Hill, as a "Young gay Christian" - your description or a 'book liner' description ? The purpose of Hill's book is to convince the world that he cannot leave his sexual inclinations and so he is simply not going to act on them and remain celibate. Good luck on that one , I'm pretty sure he will probably be the only celibate homosexual in America. Hill is trying to convince the world that he is "washed/cleansed" - presumably by the shed blood of Jesus - which is inable to regenerate him - NOT only is the Lord inable to regenerate his mind - but according to Wesley the Lord is not even able to tempt Wesely to perform with any female in this world - which is extremely amazing ! I know and talk with homosexuals and I am QUITE familiar with homosexuals and their habits and ways and I can tell you that they regularly perform with males and females - often together. Now - Here is a statement from Wesley's book :". . 'I hope this book may encourage other homosexual Christians to take the risky step of opening up their lives to others in the body of Christ,' .. 'In so doing, they may find, as I have, by grace, that being known is spiritually healthier than remaining behind closed doors, that the light is better than the darkness...'" Wesley thinks it's "spiritually healthier" to "come out of the closet" ! He is calling for all the Christian homosexuals ,sitting in the pews - next to those extremely sinful heterosexual hypocrites - to come out of the closet and announce their homosexual orientations and desires. My oh my .... churches just chock full of celibate homosexuals :) Here's another one of Wesley's statments from his book . “Like Paul"....“I have prayed fervently, desperately, tearfully on multiple occasions for God to take away this ‘thorn in my flesh,” but a change in orientation"..." has not been a part of my experience ".. “nor has it been the experience of many gay and lesbian Christians who are silently struggling to remain faithful as they worship and serve with us, day after day, in the fellowship of the church....” Poor wesley & the crowds of 'silently struggling' gay/lesbian "Christians" :) bravely holding back their impulses to practice abominable and truely bizarre perversions . I'm sure they are all intending to be as "celibate" as Wesley. Wesley says he can't be changed and neither can other homosexuals . Wesley says the church must welcome them as "washed in the Blood of the Lord" - cleansed and admitted to fellowship. Wesley assures us of their intentions of a life of celibacy. Your modus operandi here is obviously to play up the sin of heterosexuals in a way that makes heterosexual sin and homosexual sin as equivalent. Animal sexors and murderers can't be regenerated either and because heterosexuals are sinners and major hypocrites - who are they to judge animal sexors. Especially when the animal sexors promise not to act on their impulses - they just want "fellow-ship". They are "tired of the shame and lonliness - it's tough being an 'animal sexor'. I'm sure if I looked into each of the other books you listed for us to read - they would all be equally demonic and equally result in the inclusion of "Christian homosexuals" in the pews. Bethany I don't mean to be rude - but could you possibly be a 59 year old man ?

BETHANY C HOLLAND

March 04, 2013  1:36am

Audrey and Charles, you are inferring meaning to my words that I don't wish to imply. I am not pleading for an acceptance of homosexual behavior. I believe it's a manifestation of our separation from God in a fallen world, equal to sinful heterosexual behavior such as porn, rape, prostitution, adultery etc." All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I am well aware of the trap of legalism versus license, the balance between grace and truth. Precisely my point. We Christians have doled out the truth, but have been woefully short on grace. That is simply what I have heard from every gay or lesbian I've talked to. Romans 3 makes it clear that not one of us has a leg to stand on before God, we're all in an identical condition. Jesus made it clear that we're to love, not judge each other, because judging is God's job. The balance between truth and grace. No one is "harmed by the gospel's teaching on homosexuality." Only by the lack of love and compassion from fellow sinners.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 03, 2013  6:50pm

Bethany : Christians have to be VERY Careful about - "special pleading" - concerning young boys/girls being psychically harmed by the Gospel's teaching about homosexuality. VERY Careful with talk about "sexual identities". For example , when you post this : "...sexual identity is formed in the earliest years of childhood - we don't even know exactly how. Do you remember when you "became" a heterosexual? I sure don't.... " - [RED LIGHT ! WARNING ! RED LIGHT !] - That sounds , to me , like an implication that there was no other choice or option ... that perhaps "God creates homosexuals" or looks the other way on some "genetic or scientific" basis. I do know that Forms of special pleading very similar to what you wrote - are now the current vector of approach and "camels nose under the tent" of those who want to change/discount/reject, the Word's view of homosexuality. Concern for others is good - But - We are warned, that darkness will appear as an "angel of Light" speaking "swelling Words of Love and Compassion". Now - Christians have no problem, whatsoever, with people who are concerned and loving toward 13 year old boys/girls who may be confused about their sexuality , and are saddened when they are made fun of - for 'girlish/mannish' behaviors - Christians have no desire to ever defend that type of callous behaviour towards them - as "Christianity". But a Christian is to make their "foreheads as Brass" - as soon as any special pleading for the acceptance of homosexual behaviors as natural and un-censurable , is recognized - and SLAM the door of the Church shut - when it is clear that these "new views" of a 'sinless' homosexuality - which needs no repentence - attempt to insert themselves into the Lord's Church. I am told that the author you cited will NOT declare homosexuality to be sin or require it's being forsaken. Once you go there - you are engaged in separating men from the Lord and denying the Word of God.

Report Abuse

Jim Ricker

March 03, 2013  6:47pm

How about we treat Tebow with the same benefit of the doubt WE would expect from people who have no idea of your (or my ) motives?

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

March 03, 2013  4:55pm

Bethany, GOD is love and GOD is truth -- equally. Christ Jesus said, "I AM the way, THE truth, THE life. No one comes to the Father but by me." Any love which denies the truth of God's Word is not God's love. Everyone has opinions, but there is only one God, and there is NO truth apart from Him, apart from His Word. When Jesus prayed for His followers before He was crucified, He said to the Father, "Sanctify them through Your Word, for Your Word IS truth."

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 03, 2013  2:17pm

You cannot help but watch Tim Tebow in his manner of walking in the world and be impressed by his sincerity and what appears to be the 'goodness' of his heart. I know he loves the Lord. He is a fantastic example . I understand the Christian desire to protect Tim and his ministry from what some see as either too strident , long-lasting or undue criticism. I understand some may think that 'too much' is being made of Tim's decision . Yes - God Bless Tim Tebow.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 03, 2013  1:16pm

The prince of this world is very interested in using Tim's lack of judgement - as the "poster boy" of the New Christianity. he can then scourge the Gospel from both directions. 1. That Churches/Pastors - exemplified by Rev. Jeffress - are seen by "Real Christians" as hateful - and can ask - "...are you a Christian or a 'hater' like Jeffress..." ? 2. That Christian Churches desire celebrity and the world's acceptance so much - that they will carelessly sell-out/re-define - the Gospel's historic and well-known opposition to homosexual behaviour , effectively participating in the twisting of the Word of God. Tim Tebow is a fine example , doing a work for the Lord and sincere. Tim could destroy both lines of attack if he would end his silence and now support Pastor Jeffress.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 03, 2013  8:07am

Tim cancelled a speaking engagement. He didn't deny Christ publicly. That is all. If you think he cancelled because of pressure from the "left" (which is certainly a possibility), then PRAY FOR HIM to be restored, don't keep casting stones in a self-righteous manner. He is still a member of the body of Christ, and is still your and my brother in Christ. He didn't walk away from the faith. Let's practice some mercy and grace to Tim. I am choosing not to judge Tim.

Report Abuse

Yves Johnson

March 02, 2013  6:42pm

I liked your well-balanced article. I've been asking why our high-profile Christian leaders aren't standing strong on these two issues: There's only one way to God and Christians view homosexuality as sin. Often I hear a lot of talking around the issue. In my book, There Is No Gray In Moral Failure, I dedicated an entire chapter on this issue. I don't think we should shun or push any of the unbelievers away. Nor should we speak in a way that is hateful. If we did, we would be acting contrary to our Christian values. However, we cannot and should not dilute the word of God in order to "tolerate" things our faith do not stand for. We probably will not know all the reasons Tebow withdrew. We do know there was a lost opportunity to highlight God's love and the opportunity for everyone to enjoy that love. I look forward to following your next articles.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 02, 2013  4:41pm

Rob - if Tim's reason for not going was his discovery that he did not want to associate himself with something that he considered to be an exercise in extravagant spending - then BY ALL MEANS he should just say that now - because the World thinks he just passed judgement on Pastor Jeffress and his congregation as "haters". If he bowed to pressure from homosexual activists bent on forcing him to cancel his visit to that church - then now he should just admit it. I'm hoping that he just "wimped out" and is gonna eventually come out and face the music . It's also possible that he merely displayed poor judgement in thinking that he had to protect his ministry in the eyes of the world - by cancelling ...not realizing the message that would be sent and how it would be used against the Gospel. In that case , it is now ESSENTIAL that he correct the world's mis-interpretation of his Cancellation and make it clear that Pastor Jeffress in not - 'unloving'. Making a 'scriptural judgement' on the expenditure of that sum for a facility vs. other uses of the money is within Christian discussion. Tebow would be on a lot 'safer scriptural ground' there.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 02, 2013  4:10pm

Bethany : Those aren't - "fiercely antagonistic arguments over highly divisive social issues" - and it's certainly not "love" you're showing by attempting to paint the Lords view of homosexuality - as driven by hatred - any more than you can paint the commands prohibiting "sex with animals" - as "hatred" . If an "outsider"wants to be included in the Kingdom of God - there is ALWAYS a way to accomplish that and it's not by practicing homosexuality - it's by becoming regenerated by the Spirit of God. Such "WERE" some of you - not - such "ARE" some of you. Jesus will never apologize to Sodom for it's destruction. He finds the practice of homosexuality to be "repugnant" - He loves all men and wants them freed. NOTHING - scripturally, Historically or culturally in the last 4000 years of Judaism & Christianity allows you to deny the Cross and tell men that they are free to practice homosexuality and need not to repent of that. EVERYTHING in the Word of God tells you otherwise. Jesus didn't love people "where they were" in the sense that He visited gay bars looking for converts and politely listening and smiling - as they swapped "god jokes". The Grace of God is not that He allows men to participate in homosexuality - but that He chose to be crucified for their healing. In every case you will find - Jesus maintained the sanctity and holiness of God's Word - He told his listeners - to listen to and to do every Word which the Pharisees/Saducees read to them from the Torah. To "DO" every Word they heard that was spoken. That Word - which is Good and "Holy" - includes His very clear condemnation of homosexuality - up to and including extreme punishments for idolatry and homosexuality. You have to purposely and consiously deny the last 4000 years of Judaism and Christianity's view of the nature of homosexuality/idolatry and sin in order to now treat them as lately acceptable. You have to claim that Christians and Jews were simply always confused about the Word of God . You have to deny the statements of every "church father" from 100 A.D on -who , who, when speaking on this issue ..Make Jeffress look like a raving humanist -comparatively. You have to assert that Christians were merely mistaken and it's a simply anomoly - that there was never a 'homosexual church' from 2000 bc until approximately 1987 - in the world - when in America the world's first homosexual church was incorporated. You have to be willing to completely ignore that 'homosexuality is a categorical sin' in scripture. Whereas there are thousands of scriptural references to heterosexuality - it's exercise is often condemned as well as often praised as 'lovely' and the Lords plan for mankind - depending upon how it is exercised. . Whereas in EVERY INSTANCE - in the Word of God - homosexuality is described as an abomination - with EACH and EVERY mention - and there is NEVER praise of it - of ANY kind. There will never be a "homosexual Christian" anymore than there will be a "murderer Christian". No "sheep-skin" for you ! homosexuals will continue railing against Christians as "haters" - as they have been doing now for 50 years in America - they think they are making progress. Homosexuals have never been un-clear about Christianity's view of homosexuality. They know EXACTLY the age-old and thorough Scriptural view of homosexuality - they just want to ostracize and change it ...and their primary tool to do so - is this "unloving" jihad - they are on about.

Report Abuse

rob ross

March 02, 2013  3:35pm

Early when this news broke, I too was disappointed in Tim Tebow's action, I then read further to try to better understand this story. What caught my attention had nothing to do with Tebow's response but the largely ignored reason why he was going to speak at this church. That weekend they will be dedicating their new $130,000,000.00 campus expansion. To think with all the critical needs of the Christian community worldwide for things such as bibles, discipleship materials, food and medical care they could think that God would be leading them to do this. Is beyond me. Think of the millions of bibles they could buy or the thousands of indigenous churches they could plant or, as an example, they could feed every person in the country of Burundi one meal a day for two months, which would save countless lives. As a Christian I find this amount of money being spent by one church, on themselves, extremely selfish and sickening. I seriously wonder about the "maturity" of this congregation

Report Abuse

BETHANY C HOLLAND

March 02, 2013  3:20pm

For any who are interested... a few good books: Turning Controversy into Church Ministry -- a Christlike Response to Homosexuality by W.P. Campbell Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill (written by a young, gay Christian trying to lead a life of celibacy and faithfulness -- it offers a compassionate glimpse into his lonely journey) Anything written by Mark A. Yarhouse, a Christian, who has done important work in sexual identity issues. The problem is that we're talking about a person's identity, not just your "average" sin. Our sexual identity is formed in the earliest years of childhood; we don't even know exactly how. Do you remember when you "became" a heterosexual? I sure don't. Yes, a choice to act out of our identity is ultimately involved. But, if you've ever intimately known someone who struggles in this area, it's very complicated! I don't wish to diminish God's Law one iota -- the Bible is clear on homosexuality. But we are saved by grace, and grace is needed here!

Report Abuse

BETHANY C HOLLAND

March 02, 2013  2:58pm

Yes Rick, I've read the book several times, it has been helpful. It makes the point that Jesus said people would know we're His followers by our love, not by our fiercely antagonistic arguments over highly divisive social issues. Where has all our arguing over homosexuality gotten us? Most gays see Christians as complete hypocrites. They think if we find them repugnant, God must also. We have driven them away. I work with youth at our church, and it's a battle just to keep the kids who struggle with SSA in the church -- they feel excluded and singled out for shame. It's heartbreaking. Jesus loved the outsider. Paul's whole ministry was to outsiders. You and I, but for God's amazing grace, would still be outsiders. How have we done with the outsiders of our time? I think the point Andrew makes so well is that it is our job to love people as they are and where they are, as Jesus did. To invite them in, not shut them out until they promise to change.

Report Abuse

Rick Dalbey

March 02, 2013  11:55am

Bethany, Marin's book has been helpful? So you believe in homosexual churches, gay marriage couples, gay priests and pastors with no need to change? Marin's twisting of scripture to support Gay theology is ridiculous and way out of line. You found that helpful? I read it and thought it was bizarre.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 02, 2013  11:14am

I visit un-believing websites to see their mood and content. On this 'Tebow' issue I visited the Huffington post website - for the last couple of days. There are about 20 pages of posts there - 95% of them are posting that Tim Tebow told them Christian haters - "what is what" - about not condemning homosexuality and not being a hater. On Huffington Post there are 20 pages of posts on Tebow. The usual posts involve various workings of ..."Christianity is love and compassion - Not judgement" .... "Tebow turned those haters down" ... "Jesus hated the preachers of His day also" ... "hypocrites in the temple in Jesus's day" ... "Christians don't agree on this - so why make a big deal out of it anyway" ..."the world doesn't hate Christians ...it hates "intolerance and bigotry" ..."Jeffress makes 'vile comments' about homosexuals and Mormons while Tim 'loves' them ..."Tebow didn't wimp out - he "became educated" about what Childress is about. I have never before seen so many unbelievers using scriptures and talking about the "true Gospel". The world obviously believes that Tim Tebow practically called Jeffress something just this side of "demon-possessed' , a "hater" and a very bad man. Tim Tebow's continued silence , is , I believe greatly harming the Gospel and greatly being used by the Lord's enemies.

Report Abuse

BETHANY C HOLLAND

March 02, 2013  3:24am

The book Love is an Orientation by Andrew Marin has been extremely helpful in framing my response as a Christian to homosexuality. We need to remember that we're all in the same sinking boat as far as sin goes. It breaks my heart that most GLBT folks don't want to get any where near Christians because we are prideful, self centered, judgmental, materialistic, get divorced, have affairs, surf internet porn sites... so who are we to call them out on their sin? When we leave OUR sin behind we'll then have the right to demand they do the same. For now, we ALL struggle. We must affirm the truth of scripture, but with a deep sense of our own brokenness. We would better represent Jesus if we were more truthful and transparent about our own sin as we loudly shout the good news of grace. Billy Graham said "It's God's job to judge, the Holy Spirit's job to convict, and our job is simply to love." Sexual identity issues are very complicated! More humility and compassion needed!

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 02, 2013  2:32am

The World will always love it's own people. There is nothing you can do to change that. Salvation comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. You don't save someone by "appearing to be" - a genuinely nice person. You don't save anyone. You can be a 'good example' to the unsaved - true. Probably the most productive method of garnering converts in America today - is to preach a humanistic, Gospel - very heavy on love and acceptance and very light on repentance and good and evil. It will fill a church -it can be happiness and light and very little , if any weeping , and regret for your 'sin'. I didn't come the happy way :) . Salvation is a truely life-changing event - you don't forget - it's often that some will "cry out for hours" with true regret and the realization of how foolish and selfish they have been. Today's America is no different than ancient Israel . .. who considered their prophets who spoke of Israel's sin and need of repentence and returning ....as "foolish, silly old men" in "hair coats" who would not adapt to the 'new world' and traveled the byways of Israel - to mocking , as staid old fuddy-duddies. The Lord noted that Israel usually winded up killing them - they were not real popular. There are NOT 2 'gods' people - an Old Testament "meanie god" and then Jesus. He is the same , yesterday and today and forever - and He is Righteous and Holy - and loving. That's one thing I ALWAYS notice that "ungrounded" people seem to be unable to understand . How He who led Moses out of Egypt descibed His primary characteristic as "loving kindness". And that "loving Kindness did apply to His Law and His Judgements. Do not accuse Him of hatred - seek to understand what real love is and how He shows it - whether you read Exodus or Phillipians.

Report Abuse

Grace Napoli

March 02, 2013  12:47am

Charles, thank you, yes, I was able to read it with a Google cache. It was very interesting, wow! Also if anyone wants to read the article Charles mentioned and the link doesn't work, this one might: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:k4raGUeTXMsJ:www.d magazine.com/Home/D_Magazine/2012/January/The_Savior_Robert_Jeffress_of_Fir st_Baptist_Dallas.aspx+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

March 01, 2013  9:58pm

Grace - I think the article was very well written and incisive also. I'm surprised the author put this together so near the event. People usually need a little more Time and distance to process all the information of any event like this - before making sense of it for themselves and their audience. I hope this link works - it's a long article with lots of information from a Dallas magazine on Pastor Jeffress: http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/D_Magazine/2012/January/The_Savi or_Robert_Jeffress_of_First_Baptist_Dallas.aspx

Report Abuse

Grace Napoli

March 01, 2013  9:18pm

I love the first line after the title of this excellent article: "Soon, the ball will be thrown to each of us." Looking back to when there were beheadings in the news on a regular basis, I remember questioning myself; what would I do if I was ever in a similar predicament, being threatened with a sword at my throat, being told that the only way out was to deny the Lord Jesus. I would NEVER want to deny my Lord! How could I live after that, and for what purpose? As crazy as it seems, these two things are similar, are they not? How could ANY CHRISTIAN ever face REAL PERSECUTION and/or death, if he/she can't even risk wealth or fame? What would I do? Would I take the "safe" way (though it's anything but safe!), and then go on pretending all I've really ever wanted to do is shower others with rainbows and valentines so they can have a "brighter day"?? Can't Hallmark do that!? ..I'm just hoping I would stand up NO MATTER WHAT. This is sad.. but my heart is encouraged by Pastor Jeffress!!

Report Abuse

Cory konners

March 01, 2013  5:57pm

The "Tim Tebow affair" has generated a massive amount of response. Perhaps showing the popularity of this young American man of good moral character-unusual today in the occupation he is in. The current evangelical church teaches the doctrine of his actions and he is a product of the contemporary American Church. The main, and most popular doctrine in the church today is the doctrine of " Moral non-judgmentalism". This means we do not judge the sins of others or society, only our own. Tim Tebow professes just that; with his life and his lips. He is a perfect example of the type of person that the evangelical church wants to promote,although his personal life may be a little to moral for the mainstream church. Robert Jeffries is out on the fringes of main stream evangelicalism. That the main stream church is making disciples or preaching the Gospel is like saying Obama is good for America.Tim Tebow promotes the Gospel that everyone else in the the Church does.

Report Abuse

Rick Dalbey

March 01, 2013  5:00pm

No, Dan, it has not occurred to me that the "new information" that Tebow used as an excuse has something to do with something ungodly associated with the First Baptist Church, instead of the homosexuality issue. Please. The issue IS homosexuality. President Obama will not rest until the Supreme Court makes gay marriage and homosexuality a protected, if not preferable status. He called on the Supreme court this week to make Gay Marriage a protected status for the nation and to undo California's vote. His hubris is breath-taking. His extreme defense of abortion and homosexuality is a mystery to me. Why? The Homosexual lobby and homosexual issues brought down the Pope this week. Massachusetts forces schools to allow students to declare a gender change without notifying parents using each other's bathrooms. In other news Obama selects an anti Israel secretary of defense. We won't even know it when the antichrist appears, he will fit right in. And some of you will defend him.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

March 01, 2013  12:01pm

Has it occured to anyone here (those crucifying Tebow) that the "new information" that Tebow received has something to do with something ungodly associated with the First Baptist Church/speaking engagement, and nothing to do with the homosexuality issue. Of course not. It's much more fun to throw stones I guess.

Report Abuse

Derek C

March 01, 2013  11:43am

@Charles C., I appreciate that you've posted an irenic request that you'd articulate for Mr. Tebow. Very cool, thank you.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

February 28, 2013  8:47pm

Tim - The Church and it's Pastors have been under heavy attack for my entire lifetime - in a campaign to paint them as 'unloving' for calling homosexuality abominable - I can't help it - that REALLY, REALLY bugs me Tim - so Tim why don't you show up in Dallas next Sunday and "Tebow" - right on the stage ! I think that would be GREAT ! I'm serious - then walk over and give Pastor Jeffress a big HUG ! Look like you're Spitting right in the face of those who insisted you cancel. BUT - then speak from your heart about why you realized you must come now and why you thought you had to cancel previously. I don't know maybe you don't feel you're a good speaker. God bless you Tim - you're a very good example to the world and have affected the world for the Gospel. You are doing a good work. Praying this all works out for the best - for the Lord and your ministry - it is very important that it does. You're in this spot because you tried to do the best you knew - how to please the Lord. I feel that has been your guiding principle even if I may not agree with the choice.

Charles Commentator

February 28, 2013  4:56pm

I'm calling on Tim to answer the questions that his decision created. Is answering really that hard ? In case you didn't notice - this article and a large number of Christians are also wondering if he is ever gonna do that and they are confused by his decision and tweet. You think they are all just some kind of Christian bullies in their concern? I agree that Tebow probably is communicating that he disagrees with Jeffress approach - but the world agrees that Tim is charging Jeffress with a lack of love. That is CLEAR. Tim should now make it CLEAR that Jeffress is not speaking from the pulpit out of a lack of love . What do you find offensive about Tim communicating that ? Biblically Tim should have gone to that Church. Whatever his reservations were - he could have explained them in love and kindness and re-confirmed his love for that Pastor and that Church. That is NOT what HAPPENED - At all ! He should have honored his original committment to do so and not sent out some tweet about ..."new information". He should have known or at the least "assumed" - that Pastors good heart and the good heart of his congregation. Tebow became the genesis of this problem when he cancelled and tweeted. We can always use more love - but NOT more acceptance of homosexuality and error by criticizing the condemnation of them as sin. why do you suppose the world is so intent now on painting the gospel as unloving on this issue ? Are you reading what the world is saying about this Pastor and this Church? Are you really ? The World LOVES this love that seeks to brand Pastor Jeffress as lacking love. That love seems to know no bounds. Tim needs to separate himself - in public - from questions now about any lack of love on that Pastor's part and that church's part. Yes I know Tim didn't say that . But - Would you sit down now , in front of that Pastor and that Church and tell them that you don't need to explain anything about this while the world attacks these Christians and the gospel - vehemently ? - as too 'unloving' to associate or stand with ? The world DOES see it that way - and I bet if you are honest with yourself you will admit that a good number of Christians are troubled by it also. So what is so WRONG with making these things clear now ? Thank the Lord for Tim Tebow - I hope he answers . I sure hope the answer is not that - "We All Sin". I hope it's something more along the lines of - "homosexuality/adultery/idolatry/" are grevious - and that men need to repent of them and Christians should help them and be understanding in that process and realize that change is hard and Christians are told to watch their own spiritual estates just as much and more - as the estates of other sinners - but are also commanded to truthfully and clearly speak the Word of God - to all - which this Pastor has done.

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 28, 2013  1:38pm

@Charles C., in light of the Romans text, why are you defending calling Tebow to account? I would suggest that it is better for believers to engage the lost in a redemptive fashion rather than create imaginary outcomes about how the world sees Tebow. Frankly, while I do not see it as a criticism, I do think Tebow might be communicating that he disagrees with the approach Jeffress is taking. If you have a biblical basis for how Tebow is supposed to do it your preferred way, I'd like to hear it. I applaud that Tebow engages the lost the way he does. I'd also like to hear how you engage the lost. The last time you were talking to your friends who don't know Christ, what did you talk about? How did you bring to them the words of Life? I don't want to hypothesize about Tebow's motives or methods, but tell me of your own approach. If you were sitting face-to-face with me or Mr. Tebow, would you conduct yourself the way you are online, anonymously?

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

February 28, 2013  1:32pm

Lots of sanctimonious self-righteousness on display here.

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 28, 2013  10:26am

@Charles C., do you see the irony of your comment? The very thing you assert applies to you in your argument "against" Tebow. In the criticism and questioning of Tebow's motive what is being done to the reputation of God? Why does Tebow even need to answer to anyone but God for his motives? It seems Tebow took the high ground by saying nothing, and Jeffress and those on his side, are taking Tebow to task. What is the biblical rationale for your criticism and analysis? Going back to Romans 14:4, what is your valid criticism of Tebow? Consider the context of the passage, what is your role and right to evaluate Tebow's spiritual condition? Jesus tells us His people are known by their fruit. I would encourage you to be circumspect about your own role in advancing God's Kingdom. We, as God's people, should/can encourage one another rather than entering into silly quarrels. My appeal is to not find imaginary enemies in our own camp.

Report Abuse

Charles Commentator

February 28, 2013  2:51am

Tebow has been silent after the tweet - that started all this . Will he step up and clarify whether or not he is willing to defend Jeffress and his church? Is Tebow going to let the charges stand that Jeffress and his church are "haters" [which is exactly what all the non-believers appear to think he tweeted ]. That Jeffress and his "bible-believing church" and similarly orthodox Christians/Churches - are just a thin veneer over hatred ? Is the World more faithfull and committed to it's humanist religion than the Church is to the Word of God ? Personally , I think the enemies of the Lord appear to be far more zealous and committed to their "lord and gospel" - than Christians are to theirs here. Seriously. They will pursue Tebow to the ends of the earth and never relent. They do not and will not accept fuzzy answers from Tebow or any Christian - either he/they cancel - or it is war unremittent. These guys look very orthodox and like real believers compared to Christians The problem is that the Church and the Word of God is being slandered by the World as 'hatefull' and it appears the Church itself is incapable or unwilling to defend either itself or the Word of God - but is willing to cut a Christian celebrity an amazing amount of slack - that I don't believe is at all wise. Tim Tebow appears to be a committed , sincere and effective Christian - but he is NOT so famous & effective - that he can be allowed to "appear" to castigate these Churches and their Pastors without a little explanation here. There is a LOT MORE at stake here than Tebow's image or the acceptance of his ministry by the world. Can't just let this hang.

Report Abuse

Robert Starr

February 27, 2013  9:08pm

Isn't Jeffress this fellow who said that anyone who votes for Obama is voting to "bring God's judgment on this country" and things like that? His message is clearly intended to provide red meat for conservative republicans and has no concern about irritiating everyone else. I am glad Tim Tebow wants to give a different message.

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 27, 2013  5:27pm

@David Jones, you offer a prescription that is "safe" for an evangelical worldview. It is true, that we need to speak truth and love, but I would ask you and others who are advocating what "others" should do, what are YOU doing? For example, when I speak with friends who are homosexual (follow other faiths, are into pornography, are unwed and living with their partner), this is what I tell them... It is too easy to rant and complain about the world (oh, they are attacking us Christians, woe to us because we are persecuted), or skewer what "bad" Christians are doing, but the question is..., "What are you (and I'm included) doing to bring salt and light into the world?" What does your redemptive work look like? What is working for you? As far as I can tell, Christians have the vitriol and verbal smearing down pretty well and don't need help from the world. Please share how you live with Grace and Love toward your neighbor.

Report Abuse

David Langley

February 27, 2013  5:02pm

@David Jones, What you're saying certainly has its place, love does involve truth and honesty. I'm not disagreeing with that. What I'm saying is that we make homosexuality out to be The Issue (along with a few other Hot Button issues) that "must" be confronted in our culture. The world is dying and yet we're concerned if our public personae represents the issue as a sin. Of course it's a sin. How else do we expect a broken world to behave?? Jesus himself didn't come to condemn the world but to save the world, and we're the messengers of that. When we "speak out" against homosexuality, the world sees and hears another Christian message of condemnation. We MUST handle this issue differently. In my opinion, when the topic is brought up to our public figures, we ought to emphasize how desperately we love homosexuals and how we are so eager for relationship with them. Then MAYBE the world will begin forgiving us for alienating them, and hopefully they'll begin listening to us.

Report Abuse

David Jones

February 27, 2013  3:19pm

Homosexuality is an issue because secular society has made it one, and has made bible-believing Christians the enemies of societal advancement. The fury from media, liberal pulpits, citizens and politico's from both sides of the socially-liberal aisle have forced Christians and Christian leadership to ask themselves whether they or their house is for the Lord or not. The vitriol and verbal smearing is only going to get worse. Those Christians who want to protect their image and brand will fear man and not God. Those who preach a gospel without repentance will have to answer for this. Do not be deceived - loving your neighbor actually means telling them the truth in love, and, sometimes, tears. But always salted with grace. Remember the fire in which you were pulled from and the stain of your sins. Wag not your finger, but do not withhold the truth about the full gospel of Jesus Christ. Carrying our crosses is the hardest thing to to. It is painful and costly. Love your neigbor w/truth

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 27, 2013  10:45am

David Langley, +1

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 27, 2013  10:36am

@Pop Seal, what makes you think Tebow "failed?" In light of Romans 14:4, why are you making such an accusation? Rather than making insinuations about what someone else has done (or not done), encourage the Body of Christ by sharing with us how you are connecting with those who don't know Christ. Your veiled criticism reminds me of someone who criticized D. L. Moody for his methods of evangelism in attempting to win people to the Lord. Moody’s response was "I agree with you. I don’t like the way I do it either. Tell me, how do you do it?" The person replied, "I don’t do it." Moody retorted, "Then I like my way of doing it better than your way of not doing it."

Report Abuse

Ulf Lilienthal

February 27, 2013  10:26am

I totally agree with the post by David langley. The constant insistance of the current evangelical leadership to put such an emphasis on homosexuality as the sin above all sins, is really hurting Chritianity and its influence in the world more than it is helping it. Many are not even seeing the many sin planks in their own eyes as they condemn those with the splinter of homosexuality in theirs. We should be praying for all sinners equally and hate all sin equally. God and Jesus never put weighting factors on them. We have no right to.

Report Abuse

David langley

February 27, 2013  9:41am

This article reflects the misguided perspective our Christian culture has on homosexuality (and other Hot Buttons). Homosexuality is one issue among many sin issues in the Bible and in fact, homosexuality is dealt with on a very small scale amidst the sea of other sins with which people deal. But in America, Christians like to make homosexuality to be the dividing line, the boundary marker, the true test of Christianity. Look, homosexuality is a sin. So is lying, cheating, speaking down to my wife, having impatience with my children and treating my parents dishonorably. I get the way that homosexuality makes people feel uncomfortable and how it deals with the core of our identity, but doesn't all sin do the same in some way or another? We're broken people with so many sin issues in all areas of our lives. Stop making homosexuality out to be The Issue on which every public Christian needs to take a stand and begin telling the world how we love all people because we're all broken.

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 26, 2013  11:55pm

The biggest shift is not that our society is pluralistic, or has developed a distinctly secular/humanist morality that glorifies sexual "diversity" and independence; those were quite foreseeable and inevitable in a secularizing democratic society. The biggest, fastest, most alarming shift is the rather recent categorical rejection of religious (specifically Christian) conviction and belief in the public discourse, something that the Constitution protects and the American government welcomed for most of its history. Now every expression of religious belief (that is at odds with secular morality) is shunned and/or condemned as an infringement of rights and a violation of the First or Fourteenth Amendments. It seems apparent that evangelicals are losing the battle to retain their voice in the political sphere, and it doesn't help that we have appealed to the empty language of tradition and have treated America as though it's theocratic Israel (God's country, a chosen nation, etc.).

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 26, 2013  11:37pm

@Shaun, I'm not wrong. Yes, there were Christians involved in the formation of the United States. But that's a far cry from claiming the U.S. Constitution is based on the Bible (or somehow theocratic). Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration, called himself a Christian. Did he believe in God? Absolutely! But the deists' God was merely a creator who endowed men with rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property/"happiness", whose law was Reason. "Nature and Nature's God" is its abstract basis. This is the God of the Constitution, who is ethical and "just", but not the God who will judge the world. Keep in mind that the document only refers to an abstract Creator-deity twice. The Constitution has NO reference to God. So how can you call it Christian? In reality, all of the major actors were b/w deism and Christianity, which result was a government that acknowledged a Creator, valued religious belief, but was clearly deist, not truly Christian, in character.

Report Abuse

Pop Seal

February 26, 2013  11:08pm

Out of our failure comes a strength that only God can give. Jonah was a "deep failure" but the Word of God came to him a second time. St. Peter failed sadly but became a strength to his brothers in his 'second' ministry after the resurrection of Christ. May we learn the 'secret' of the second ministry, built on failure, based on grace rather than earthly talents.

Report Abuse

Pop Seal

February 26, 2013  11:01pm

John 3:16 sports figures just don't get it done. Middle of the road Christians are near the yellow stripe and w/o repentance will become road kill sooner or later. My hero is John Mark whom St. Paul once rejected and later required because little John Mark grew up and became a spiritual man who learned to love God more than life.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

February 26, 2013  4:06pm

To George Charles Jr... Can we judge you with the same measure you have judged Tim Tebow? Maybe you missed my challenge a few comments ago. What evidence is there that Tim Tebow withdrew because of controversy over Gay Marriage? Tim Tebow said NOTHING in hiw tweet about WHY he withdrew, so how can you stand in judgement of Tim? How?

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 26, 2013  3:57pm

@George Charles, in light of your criticism of Tebow, how do you understand Romans 14:4? And, how does Tebow's decision reflect denying Christ?

Report Abuse

Shaun DuFault

February 26, 2013  1:39pm

@Kenton Slaughter - You err on the view of the history of our nation. The idea we were founded on deistic humanism is a bunch of drivel of those who are rewriting our history who HATE Christianity. When a vast majority of those who signed the Declaration of Independence are Christians and the actual known deists were less than ten. You are very hard pressed to think that we are founded on any type of deistic or secular humanism. Even our Constitution was debated on and approved by a vast majority who had a Holy fear of the Most High.

Report Abuse

Shaun DuFault

February 26, 2013  1:34pm

@james dauer, Thanks for the reply. I do acknowledge that it is not easy for those of us who may struggle with same-sex attraction. I know that struggles are not easy at all. With that, we have the Gospel of Jesus. As much as we may struggle and may fail, we do have a high priest who does understand us and the issues we face. He is the only one who can cure and bring about the freedom we so desperately need. We are commanded by Jesus to be perfect as His Father in Heaven is. It is a goal to strive that we will definitely see when we receive our glorified bodies. May His return be soon.

Report Abuse

George Charles Jr.

February 26, 2013  1:29pm

Tim Tebow missed the opportunity that God put him in to lift the Gospel above all the rest of the crowd... This pastor and what he's subscribed to never strayed from God's word, so Tim made the incorrect decision by not attending the Firt Baptist Church in Texas upon his scheduled invitation. ALL sins are on the table if you want to be honest...how many well-known preachers are remarried while their first wives are still alive, yet God has said not only 'No', but divorced people are to not serve in ANY leadership in the body of Christ? Is that just to be considered a 'suggestion'? Homosexuality, as well as all other sexuality outside of marriage, is a sin. Besides, the 'plumbing' doesn't work... If you're ashamed of the Gospel from the Father, Jesus will be ashamed of you when it comes time...His words, not mine. Tim Tebow, you flunked God's test...you better hope you can retake it.

Report Abuse

Pop Seal

February 26, 2013  12:23pm

Pop Culture religion has lots of squirm room on the median between traffic headed right and left. It's the kind of "luke warm" religion that makes God sick to his stomach (anthropomorphically speaking). To continue the traffic analogy, the only things in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and road kill.

Report Abuse

Kyle Dupic

February 26, 2013  11:49am

I thought he just stepped aside because of unfortunate truth that he might not have a job next year. Part of the reason he isn't desired by teams is this media frenzy that comes with him. I don't think it is his fault, but it is a reality that that is what he brings. May we not accuse a mature brother of making this decision in haste. I'm sure he spoke with people, prayed over it, and thought the best way for him to pursue his dream of being an NFL starting QB and to widen the platform he has for the gospel of Jesus Christ, was to stay away from controversy. He may have to take a stand one day...but the reality is, it might not be today if he wants to play next year.

Report Abuse

Wayne R. Felton II

February 26, 2013  10:52am

Looking at Christian History, the first Century church was deemed as a group of cannibalistic lunatics because of their beliefs. It is not the job of the Christian to be liked by the world. As a matter of truth Jesus told us to rejoice when we are hated by the world for standing for Him. This issue of the morality of homosexuality is something the world can debate but Christians should stand by the Bible. Homosexuality is sin. When the world endorses homosexuality we shouldn't be surprised because THE WORLD SINS. The world is supposed to be evil because they have not been redeemed. But when Christians consider changing stance to please the world we prove that the love of the Father is not in us (1 John 2). We should stand boldly on what the Word says, and not think twice about what people think about us for it. Ultimately sinners will not be won to Christ because of our joining their ways, they will come to Christ when who Jesus is, is lifted up. For only then will all be drawn to Him.

Report Abuse

Jon Trott

February 26, 2013  10:09am

Tim Tebow handled this situation well, in my opinion. Homosexuality has long been the bulls' eye for Evangelical target practice. Mr. Tebow wants the target to be the Gospel of Jesus Christ instead. Good call, quarterback.

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 26, 2013  10:09am

@Herbert, it is illogical to think that just because someone does not take an overt stand against homosexuality (or 'insert your pet issue here'), then they are denying Christ. Hyperbole and bad theology do not advance the Kingdom. To say that Christians are not homophobic like Jesus is to ignore the reality that there are either poor representatives or non-believers who wear the name of Christ without having true relationship (Mt 25:45) Speaking of Jeremiah, how often do we humbly pursue the shalom/welfare of the community in which we live? (29:7 -- taking into account the historical context of captivity and the idolatry of Babylon) I respect how Tebow engages others redemptively and positively. If you are doing this with the homosexual population in your community, then share what you are doing rather than ranting. Since your approach is working, tell us how you are bringing sinners closer to Christ.

Report Abuse

Heterodoxy Rising

February 26, 2013  8:48am

Congrats to Tebow for standing up against a message of misinformation and hate by Jeffress and his church. Spreading lies about Aids rates and making silly statements about gay/pedophilia connections simply shows a disproportionate hatred for a certain group of people that is not in line with how Christ walked the earth. People forget that the words of Christ are in RED. He taught us that showing love is the PRIMARY way of others knowing we are HIS. Blatant hatred of a particular group of people is not driven by Christ.

Report Abuse

HERBERT MORGAN

February 25, 2013  6:38pm

The point is well made that all Christians are going to have to take a stand. It is a serious situation. Jesus said deny me in public and I'll deny you before the Father!!! However consider this: The United States has a Judeo/Christian based Constitution. The foundation of that is the Declaration of Independence. In it the God of the Bible is referred to as Lawgiver, Judge, Creator and Helper. We hear the benefits of the Creator quoted by people left, right and center. However how long will this Creator (Jesus) tolerate a nation who charge those who follow and obey Him with being "homophobes" since in doing so they are also painting Him with the same brush? It doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to figure out what He had in mind when He created "male and female." God is the same forever. With this in mind read Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekial. Our Creator is alive and well and watching (read Ps 50). Above all right now we need to pray for Mercy for all of US.

Report Abuse

Derek C

February 25, 2013  3:53pm

@Steve S., your response is ironic and represents some of the views presented -- "So this is what America has come to. The land of the free now means that you are 'free' only to say what others want you to say or be branded. The home of the brave now means that only those who are truly 'brave' or foolhardy, will 'dare to thread' in areas now prohibited by self-appointed 'thought police'." Could it be that those who are ragging on Tebow are the thought police? Why is Tebow considered in the wrong for declining? Since when did outspoken speech against homosexuality become an indicator of "being faithful?" Here's a "novel" thought -- what if we were to engage sinners and non-Christians as if they were guests in our homes or our immediate neighbors? Extending kindness to someone is not equivalent to condoning sin. Not speaking at a church that is outspoken is not backsliding or condoning the sins the church stands against.

Report Abuse

Kenneth Regan

February 25, 2013  3:39pm

Dr. Mohler, statements 1,3,4,5 at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jeffress#Controversial_Statements --- i.e., the four not involving homosexuality --- are enough to cite as reason for Mr. Tebow's action. In Christ, ---Ken Regan

Report Abuse

Tammy Davis

February 25, 2013  3:37pm

I really wish people would not lump all Christians together. We have a hard time with our credibility because, on the one hand, we publicly condemn certain behaviors (sins), while on the other hand we choose to ignore other behaviors that the Bible considers sin, but because it is OUR particular sin, it must be okay. I lose patience with Christians that decry homosexuality and abortion, while they engage in adultery, lie, get divorced, steal, gossip, hate, etc. I am a Christian and I do not believe that homosexuality is okay, but I am not going to get on my soapbox and preach that to the world. God gave ALL of us freewill. I alone will answer for my sin...others will have to do the same.

Report Abuse

Howard Pepper

February 25, 2013  2:45pm

While I don't agree with the underlying apparent beliefs here about homosexuality, the article makes some good points about the need for Christians to be more thoughtful on a number of levels. It may well be that the main issue re. Tebow's withdrawal was that of posture toward gays. Or it may not. Regardless, I want to reinforce this: the issue of gay rights, marriage, etc. has come to the place, and I think appropriately, where everyone, including all Christians, has an obligation to do deep & open exploring. (I'd say "research" but that may sound intimidating to some). That is, at least read or talk to some of the very committed and serious-minded, sincere Christians who have commented on their own struggles. Some have written on their thorough biblical explorations, as have various scholars who are heterosexual. There has also been a lot of important research in recent decades on the causes of homosexuality (is it a "choice?", "changeable"?, etc.). Have an INFORMED conviction.

Report Abuse

Rainlife Rainlife

February 25, 2013  2:32pm

The issue isn't simply the sinfulness of homosexual acts; the issue is sexual sin in general. Most Evangelicals have implicitly (or explicitly) given pre-marital sex, masturbation and contraception free passes in the moral arena. It's impossible to consistenly argue that homosexual behavior is immoral but that pre-marital sex and contraception are okay. I recommend -- as a Catholic and recovering Evangelical -- John Paul II's "Theology of the Body" for a fully formed theology on sexuality as gift that can only be expressed with any integrity within heterosexual marriage.

Report Abuse

carlos santiago

February 25, 2013  12:39pm

Kenton very thoughtful posts. I would agree. Only by renewing ones heart and mind and the infilling of the Spirit can one ever hope that society be changed. Govermental cronyism, Wall Street manipulation, endless wars, environmental destruction; immorality; these are all results of Man's best wisdom. We can be obedient to all the civil laws we want, and still be a million miles from God. Bring people to Christ and then allow Him to enable us to reflect Him. It's all about the relationship.

Report Abuse

James Aist

February 25, 2013  11:48am

The homosexual movement has never really been interested in tolerance of homosexuality. The ultimate and most all-encompassing goal of the gay agenda is to force our society to fully accept their lifestyle as morally, socially, legally, religiously, politically and financially equivalent to the heterosexual lifestyle. This goal is for not only acceptance, but also affirmation and celebration of homosexual behavior as normal, natural, healthy and desirable (11, 13, 14). This is what the homosexual movement is really all about. The traditional civic virtue of tolerance is being replaced with a new ethic requiring approval and endorsement of homosexuality (11). Read more at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/09/03/the-gay-agenda-what-in-the-world-i s-going-on/

Report Abuse

Robert Pelfrey

February 25, 2013  10:13am

Why is Tebow's desire to focus his witness on "a message of hope and Christ's unconditional love" a "fumble"? He's an entertainer--not a pastor, theologian, or lawmaker--and shouldn't be expected to have a public position on every hot-button issue. Further, he could just as easily have decided not to appear because of the church's decision to spend $130 million on a building in the midst of the city's dire poverty and homelessness.

Report Abuse

Rick Griffin

February 24, 2013  7:58pm

Yeah, yeah, we know. If you don't accept any and all behavior, then you're just an intolerant bigot according to these hypocritical blowhards trying to promote homosexuality. Of course, these same hypocritical blowhards are completely silenced the minute you ask them if God accepts any and all behavior.

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 24, 2013  3:08pm

(contin'd) ... Our approach to evangelism is too monolithic. Certainly among those who profess to be Christians (within social conservative subculture at least) we should convince of sin, as they like the Jews of Jesus' day are most zealous for preserving "God's country" while being blind to their own failure to live up to God's law. But among the many who subscribe to the world's prevailing worldview and morality (whether Christian or otherwise), it does little good to tell them of their sin against a Law to which they do not subscribe. Look at Paul's interactions with Gentiles. He confronts the heart of their worldview with the foundation of the gospel: there is a good, sovereign God who will judge the actions of all people by His Son whom he raised from the dead. Consequently, he mercifully commands all people to repent of their ignorance by turning to Him through this man He has appointed to be the judge of the living and the dead (who also died for our sins committed in ignorance)

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 24, 2013  2:43pm

@ Steve Skeete, I think part of the problem is that we have this romantic view of America as a "great [Christian] country", when it's origins were never so biblically noble. It's founding premise was deistic humanism and what has developed in the past 50 years is a culture that combines libertarianism, social justice, and pluralism, while redefining moral obligation around decidedly humanist and secular principles. Such activism is therefore unsurprising -- even inevitable -- when it is logical (from its own worldview). The American Constitution was rather progressive for its time, even if the culture was quite traditional, and so American institutions permitted cultural change. But it's founding worldview has pretty much remained the same (Deist/Christian [now secular] humanism). So we have to respond with the gospel that proclaims God's sovereignty and Christ's lordship. We can't rely on philosophy, and we can't treat the US as "Jerusalem" when it's "Athens"...

Report Abuse

Joe Kaul

February 24, 2013  6:35am

Commentator's 'Hate Speech'... The language of intolerance has been co-opted by a popular moral (not political) libertarianism that sees it as immoral to pass negative moral judgements on many behaviors of other people. Historically, the proper word to describe such libertarianism is permissive, not tolerant. Permissive in this context means, 'it's OK', or 'I don't really care' whereas tolerant means, 'I don't approve but I'll forbear.' The first is morally easygoing, the latter is not - but recognizes the need of forbearance. But since 'permissive' doesn't have the nobel resonance that 'tolerance' does, they have just grabbed the latter word and poured their own libertarian ethic into it. And that is how they can be intolerant (the classic sense) in the name of tolerance (current popular, libertarian sense). So, regardless of 'tone,' or however gently or sympathetically framed, any root disapproval of another's behavior is labeled as 'intolerant' or 'hateful.'

Report Abuse

Darryl Woodson

February 24, 2013  6:02am

Excellent read. Enjoyed it!

Report Abuse

jOHN aNDREWS

February 24, 2013  3:29am

@J Thomas. I just wanted to share that I agree with what you said about what happens now for Tebow. This is why I am concerned for him. He opened a door for the anti-christ by backing down under the worldly pressure applied. You can bet the enemy took note of that and will use that same strategy as often as he can, because now he knows it works against the Tebows. I pray that Tim's relationship and current focus on the Lord is strong enough to resist the wiles of the enemy and these likely escalated future attacks designed to shut down his Christian witness. I also reiterate, whether you agree with the approach of the leadership or not, as a outside speaker with a message--if that message is about God and not your popularity--you take the message there. Maybe if your message is really from God about His love, it causes a positive change within that area or with that leadership. Maybe someone in that congregation has been praying for a change and God was going to use Tim.

Greg Gardner

February 23, 2013  11:28pm

When reading this article insert "Jesus" in most of the places you read "Tebow" and "Giglio." It makes for an interesting read.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

February 23, 2013  4:37pm

Why did Tim Tebow withdraw from speaking at this church? Anyone? Proof that it was because of the homosexual issue anyone? So why are Albert Mohler and some here passing judgement on Tim Tebow?

Report Abuse

Sean Norris

February 23, 2013  4:09pm

"...abandoning the truth of God's Word is not an option. We deny the gospel if we deny the sinfulness of sin. That sin. Every sin. Our sin." I think it's sad that for Mohler and Jeffress, this is what Gospel boils down to. I can see why someone whose Christianity is centered around something other than cataloguing and defining the sins of other people would choose not to be associated with that kind of message. These pastors have placed this issue at the forefront of the gospel they preach, and have allowed it to define their ministries. Articles like this only serve to further obscure whatever else might be included in that message.

Report Abuse

Steve Skeete

February 23, 2013  4:09pm

So this is what America has come to. The land of the free now means that you are 'free' only to say what others want you to say or be branded. The home of the brave now means that only those who are truly 'brave' or foolhardy, will 'dare to thread' in areas now prohibited by self-appointed 'thought police'. This is cultural 'Sharia' masquerading as concern for the 'rights' of an 'oppressed' group, while seeking to muzzle, intimidate and outlaw all opposition. But the saddest part of all is that the Church is capitulating. Of course, Tebow is young, impressionable, and no doubt has his career to think about. Someone needs to warn him that while giving in to the cultural 'mafia' may profit for a while, there is much to lose in the end. What is happening in America is both unbelievable and potentially disastrous. Who would ever have thought that in a 'great' country like America that God's people could become so powerless as to be unable to affirm what the Bible clearly teaches. How sad!

Report Abuse

Jim Ricker

February 23, 2013  3:33pm

Hi Kent, "Either way, Paul leaves. He is presented with a pagan lifestyle and confronts its WORLDVIEW. How? By simply preaching the gospel." Why this is not evident to people who follow Jesus is amazing. Off topic but, this also applies to the Missouri Synod Lutheran debacle with the Newtown interfaith ceremony. We are to bring the Great News to those in need and not be concerned with being 'sullied' by being with those of other faiths in a secular setting.

Report Abuse

Jim Ricker

February 23, 2013  3:29pm

Hi Audrey, No, the Mosaic law was not presented yet but that is not relevant. Abraham found favor with God, is a hero of the faith (before the Mosaic law was given) and is pointed to as one to emulate in the NT. With the same logic presented by Jeffress in the video, Judaism and Christianity endorses incest and it was not pointed out as evil either. I'm not saying the Scriptures endorse incest, all I'm saying is that if we use Jeffress' logic about Islam and Mohammed, then incest is supported in Scripture.

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 23, 2013  2:46pm

@Kent Slaughter: dude you rock! Awesome insight!

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 23, 2013  2:31pm

(cont) All of creation moans and groans and homosexuality is a product of the fall. Taking the same approach to divorce, i would recommend the same toward homosexuality. I.e. stuff happens and it's not a perfect world.

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 23, 2013  2:27pm

@Shaun You are correct when i wrongly claimed you quoted a text to me. I had several thread comments in mind when i responded--my apology. And i agree with you the whole law doesnt need to be read when discussing homosexuality. The church (my main criticism and would love your input/solution) offers IRRELEVAN or USELESS or SIMPLISTIC answers to sin. Repent is the main solution, followed by feast on the word, followed by be filled with the Spirit. Yet the lure of same sex attraction remains as strong as ever. It is clearly more than a behavior problem. It is an identity and characterological condition. Not to mention depression and anxiety is lifted when many, not all, come out of the closet. Normally shame and guilt follows maladaptive behavior patterns. My view is not that God wills homosexuality, but that he wills a sympathetic response just like divorce. Does God will divorce? No! Moses issued a certificate of divorce because of our hard hearts. (to be cont)

Report Abuse

J Thomas

February 23, 2013  1:28pm

The demonic Saul Alinsky political philosophy has permeated our society, and now we are left with this kind of polarizing demonization in all avenues of our culture. Saul Alinsky is a curse. Now that popular media has taken up his tactics of demonization and polarization, we are left with no room to think or be free without having angry mobs of people storming our internet doors. These people hate Tebow because he is a Christian, and they'll use anything they can to tear him down because he is a political and cultural threat to them. They did the same thing to Sarah Palin. Tebow better get used to it because its going to get worse...a lot worse. These godless fiends are going to use everything they can to marginalize him culturally, because that's the Saul Alinsky way. It's reprehensible and uncivilized.

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

February 23, 2013  1:13pm

Jim Ricker, when Abram married Sarai, had the law been given to Moses yet? This is not to defend (or decry) anything Jeffress has said, as I am not familiar with him. It's just a reply to what you said.

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

February 23, 2013  1:05pm

JohnA. I don't know anyone who is fighting against those who participate in h/s acts (note I don't assign that term to them as people). You've got it backward. If indeed those who participate in homosexual acts are singled out (I honestly can't see that they are), they themselves have invited such attention with blatant in-your-face tactics for at least 20 years. With what other anomaly are we forced to agree as normal and acceptable, or else? What other sin is exalted in Pride parades? Students in both school and college tell me that the most-bullied kids are those who are known to be virgins. In truth, our society has been bullied by 'gays'; we are not allowed to disagree with their twisted perception of 'normal' and 'acceptable', even re-defining marriage. One evidence of this is that little kindergartners in government schools have to be taught by law that 'alternative' couples and families are perfectly normal and acceptable. But there are other evidences too, everywhere.

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 23, 2013  12:54pm

Just to reiterate, the culture has already changed. The reason why homosexuality is accepted is not primarily because 5% of the American population has aggressively pushed for it. It's because the prevailing worldview has no grounds for opposing it. Acts 17:16-33 provides a helpful response. Paul goes to Athens and is "provoked" by its idolatry. But, he didn't wage a culture war; he "reasoned [1] in the synagogue... and [2] in the marketplace" (v. 17). What did he reason about? "Jesus and the resurrection" (v. 18). So the Athenians take Paul (by force), and demand that he explain himself to all. Does he begin by rebuking their idolatry and immorality? No. He proclaims to them the Most High God's goodness and calls them to repentance, because God will judge everyone through Jesus. Some mock his irrational beliefs, others are curious, and a few believe. Either way, Paul leaves. He is presented with a pagan lifestyle and confronts its WORLDVIEW. How? By simply preaching the gospel.

Report Abuse

Dee McDonald

February 23, 2013  12:40pm

I just wanted to repeat what Dan from Georgia said because it appears that many on here claim to know Tim Tebow's heart. Dan said: "It seems as though Mohler is judging Tebow based on information that no one has except God and Tebow. Tim Tebow made no mention of his motives for withdrawing from speaking at the church, and everyone is jumping on his back saying that he can't stand up for being against homosexual behavior/homosexuality. Maybe his motives were not centered around the gay issue in the first place. Besides, if I was someone important in the Kingdom of God, perhaps I wouldn't want to speak at such a large and opulent church."

Report Abuse

Shaun DuFault

February 23, 2013  12:39pm

@James dauer - what Bible verse did I proof text for you? So far it would seem that pragmatism and informing someone that what they are doing is sinful is "bashing". What do you use for counseling, Freud? You may want to stop believing in the misnomer that Jesus has not spoken on homosexuality. He has spoken quite clearly. He spoke directly that marriage is only between one man and one woman. Also, the last time I checked, Jesus is God and when the Tri-une God spoke in the OT was Jesus on the sidelines, never mind the rest of the NT. Sinful behavior is a constant struggle for all Christians. Some are free from addictions by prayer as God sees fit and others need support groups, while others need additional help. This does not detract from the fact that sin is sin.

Report Abuse

jOHN aNDREWS

February 23, 2013  12:33pm

Audrey Ruth, I disagree with you. It is not the homosexuals we are fighting against, it is the ways of the world and the spirits acting on them. Do you really believe that homosexuals have enough power amongst themselves to do anything? No, it is the whole "politically correct, anti-Christian" viewpoint of this nation that has driven all this. Its the same viewpoint that says women should have the right to abort the life that was a consequence of a bad decision they made (they call that freedom of choice, not murder). While we speak against abortion, as an act, I've not met too many Christians who speak against the individuals who abort. Homosexuals will say they can't help themselves. God reminded me of what Jesus did when confronted with the woman caught in adultery. In my book, she was being bullied. Yes, she did something wrong to deserve what she got; but she didn't even get what she deserved from Jesus. God hates divorce. We are supposed to be "little Christs."

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

February 23, 2013  11:57am

@JohnA: Again, if indeed those who participate in homosexual acts are singled out (I honestly can't see that they are), they themselves have invited such attention by their in-your-face tactics during at least the last 20 years. With what other anomaly are we forced to agree as normal and acceptable, or else? What other sin is exalted in Pride parades? Those who participate in h/s behavior may be at the top of the list for being bullied, but is that accurate? Students in both school and college tell me that the most-bullied kids are those who are known to be virgins. In truth, our society has been bullied by 'gays'; we are not allowed to disagree with their twisted perception of 'normal' and 'acceptable', even re-defining marriage. One evidence of this is that little kindergartners in government schools have to be taught by law that 'alternative' couples and families are perfectly normal and acceptable. But there are other evidences too, everywhere.

Report Abuse

jOHN aNDREWS

February 23, 2013  10:59am

@Audrey Ruth: There are a lot more things that this corrupt world promotes. They may not hold pride parades, but look how we, as a general society, abuse alcohol and loves to share the stories about it. While I am not homosexual, nor ever was (thanks be to God); if I was, I would probably be trying to defend myself against what I felt was "getting singled out." There is so much bullying that goes on in the world. Homosexuals are near the top of the list for being bullied. I don't think you condone the behavior. And, I certainly don't think you change the definition of marriage, but then I don't think you should change the meaning of the constitution, yet over time, that has happened in this country. We have pulled God out of schools, and worse, we have encouraged sex (out of marriage) in schools. There are a lot of things that should upset a Christian, but we have to figure out a better way to handle that frustration--our battle is not supposed to be against flesh and blood.

Report Abuse

jOHN aNDREWS

February 23, 2013  10:48am

I have yet to meet anyone--particularly non-Christian but Christians also--who were deceived into participating in some ungodly behavior or making some ungodly judgement who changed their practice simply because someone condemned them and threw certain verses (from The Book) at them. According to the New Testament, anyone who isn't actively following (and obeying) Jesus is living in sin--that includes a whole lot more people than even this magazine would care to admit. Jesus, Peter, Paul and John all warn us that there will be many who act like one something they are not. Acting won't change their eternal destiny. God knows the heart. And, God gives no bonus points for popularity in this world.

Report Abuse

audrey ruth

February 23, 2013  10:45am

@John A: If indeed homosexual behavior is singled out, as you say, isn't it because others have singled it out themselves with an unparalled push to normalize it, to get in our faces and force us to agree with them that it is normal and acceptable? For example, have you seen Pride parades for at least the last 20 years for Liars, Adulterers, Alcoholics, etc? Or TV shows and movies which also seek to normalize it and cause everyone to feel sorry for those who participate in such behavior? Those who participate in homosexual acts became the darlings of the media quite some time ago. I agree with you that Romans 1 is pretty clear in explaining homosexual behavior, also that there is something deeper going on. It's obviously not physically inborn, because even scientists who want to find a 'gay' gene cannot find one, and there have been cases where one identical twin experienced the desire, but the other one didn't. According to God's own Word, it's a spiritual issue as is all sin.

Report Abuse

jOHN aNDREWS

February 23, 2013  10:06am

I am disappointed in Tim's decision. He obviously gave into the persecution of this world and let it change his behavior. Tim is not God. He is human like the rest of us, and as Jesus said "he who is without sin, cast the first stone." The Apostle Paul says "sin is sin" and the result of any sin is death. Jesus is the answer for false beliefs & unloving words and actions, as well as homosexual behavior. Some things change immediately when people come to Christ, other things don't change so quickly. Dr. Neil Anderson says "it is because God doesn't erase the hard drive." Homosexuality is a way of life. There are other non-Biblical ways of life that a good majority of proclaiming Christians participate in. In God's sight, sin is sin. Romans 1 is pretty clear in explaining homosexuality, but there is something deeper going on. And, God is the healer. People who sin, need God's healing not man's condemnation. We shouldn't condone any sin, but let's stop singling out one!

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 23, 2013  2:06am

@Shaun Prooftext Christianity just doesn't work. And i have seen people try to pray the gay away and it doesn't leave them. im an evangelical Christian counselor ain a medical practice and im constantly meeting people of faith with sexual orientation stuff and there is no easy solution. I wish i could just quote them a verse like you did to me, and make everything fine. I am impressed with Jesus' silence on this issue ad well.

Report Abuse

John Allman

February 22, 2013  11:58pm

Duane, I'm sure you could find incendiary quotes from Jeffress with a simple google search. I will give you one. "President Obama is not the Antichrist. But what I am saying is this: the course he is choosing to lead our nation is paving the way for the future reign of the Antichrist." We may disagree with the President's policies but this type of language is divisive and completely unhelpful. As Dan from Georgia points out we don't know what "new information" led to Tebow's withdrawal. Personally, I think the anti Obama comments are reason enough.

Report Abuse

Doris Willis

February 22, 2013  9:41pm

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, STAND. Ephesians 6:13

Report Abuse

Shaun DuFault

February 22, 2013  9:33pm

@James - right, pragmatism is the best policy let us forget what God has spoken in His Word. If you do not like the idea that homosexuality is sinful, then your issue lies with the Creator. What is frightening is that now I will have to also say that adultery is a sin, premarital sex is a sin and all other sexual things outside of a marriage between a man and woman when I address the specific sin of homosexuality or else I am a "hater". I do not recall Christians demanding when I may speak on alcoholism as being sinful that I must include all other addictions or else I am a "hater" of alcoholics. This is sad and troubling.

Report Abuse

Dan from Georgia

February 22, 2013  9:31pm

It seems as though Mohler is judging Tebow based on information that no one has except God and Tebow. Tim Tebow made no mention of his motives for withdrawing from speaking at the church, and everyone is jumping on his back saying that he can't stand up for being against homosexual behavior/homosexuality. Maybe his motives were not centered around the gay issue in the first place. Besides, if I was someone important in the Kingdom of God, perhaps I wouldn't want to speak at such a large and opulent church.

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 22, 2013  8:53pm

As an evangelical I can say the pulpit view that homosexuality is a sin is not working anymore. We all work with gay people and have many as relatives. The church needs to rethink this issue because right now it's becoming irrelevant as far as this issue is concerned. The choice theory--people choose to be gay is no longer by even conservative ministers. I have since abandoned it.

Report Abuse

Duane D Watts

February 22, 2013  7:57pm

.... Continued from below This is not a fair game folks. If you name Christ and you are a public person, they will come and get you. EVERY politician who goes to Washington MUST sell himself out or be benched. So why do we wonder at the fiery trial that attends us? More importantly, do we enslave the Gospel to political sensitivities? I don't begrudge Lebow for making his choice, especially since his ministry is outside of a church congregation. Each of us must choose how best to move our ministry. Niether do I begrudge the pastor of the Dallas church, expecially on the non-specific description of his language as "incendiary". Hey! Let's throw gas on him and a match! If he burns, he's not a witch, but if he doesn't burn, we'll have to hang him for witchcraft! The mob is after you. Don't look for the Cleft in The Rock, just Keep backing toward that cliff.

Report Abuse

Duane D Watts

February 22, 2013  7:43pm

2 thoughts: 1. "Incendiary language": can someone please tell me what is incediary language in regards to preaching that homosexual behavior is sinful? Can you give a quote from the preacher so accused, so that I can make an informed decision, or must I believe a CBS sports writer's definition of "incendiary language"? When have we backed up far enough to avoid offending the lost? Until we've backed over a cliff? 2. Preaching about sin in church: The Church is for the faithful. The pastor is called with his flock to warn and to admonish, and to preach the truth in love. If a dead man, eaves-dropping on sermons, does not catch the Gospel which I would bet a week in Las Vegas was much more available than a supposed tirade on homosexuality, should we be surprised that he is offended? The truth is probably that there are people on a witch hunt after anyone who names Christ, and will find anything that could possibly be twisted to marginalize them. Continued.....

Report Abuse

Jim Ricker

February 22, 2013  7:40pm

Another article about a Xian celebrity that is not a leader or under-shepherd of His flock? Can't say I know much of anything about the preacher but if he has been speaking truth without love, it is annoying noise that brings no glory to God and drives people away. I'm more concerned (for lack of a better term at the moment) with a preacher who is supposed to be speaker for Christ than an athlete who does not hold office in the Church.

Report Abuse

Kenton Slaughter

February 22, 2013  7:09pm

While the article is spot on, it seems as though once again, the prevailing notion here is that "[the] massive moral shift taking shape around us is fast eliminating any neutral ground on this issue". As though this "massive moral shift" is 1) massive, and 2) defined by the changing consensus on homosexuality. 1) the shift has already taken place, and 2) the cultural acceptance of homosexuality is the product, not the catalyst, of this shift. Humanism and secularism changed the moral climate long before homosexuality even reached the national stage (except in places where truth was mixed with Pharisaism and racism). So what we see is the result of the shift that's already occurred. So it makes no sense to stand firm on this one issue while passively holding to the morality that embraced it. It would serve us well to focus on the existing moral system/worldview that propels the acceptance of homosexuality by secularist and Christian alike, and to counter THAT with the gospel.

Report Abuse

Dee McDonald

February 22, 2013  6:54pm

@Dane Muhlig, perhaps I am misunderstanding your comment, but how on earth is Tim Tebow a "chicken Christian" because he does not want to associate himself with a Christian who is known for being rude. It doesn't matter if it was the secular or Christian world who made him aware of Jeffress' past comments, the fact remains: Jeffress hasn't in the past approached issues in a loving way. Why would we associate with people like that? That is why the world thinks that we hate gays--because of people like that. I can oppose same-sex marriage without being a jerk about it. Regardless of the fact that I may agree with Jeffress on the exclusivity of Christ and gay marriage, and regardless of the fact that our beliefs are the truth, we are simply a clanging gong if we don't saturate that message with love.

Report Abuse

Dane Muhlig

February 22, 2013  6:10pm

How pathetic...another "chicken christian" afraid to stand up and tell the truth in love that sets people free! Jesus said the truth will set people free-Jn.8:32 Extremely sad to see people try to present Jesus as a Hippi Gay God with flowers and giving a peace sign with his hand INSTEAD OF THE REAL JESUS WHO WAS FULL OF LOVE TO THE POINT OF NAILS IN BHIS HANDS BUT WHO ALSO CLEANSED AND TORE UP A TEMPLE BECAUSE OF HIS HATRED FOR SIN THAT GIVES DEATH AS IT'S WAGES!

James Aist

February 22, 2013  5:24pm

It is clear that the homosexuality advocates are bent on forcing the homosexual ideology and lifestyle into every aspect of the American experience, including education, government, politics, health, religion, employment, and even our thought and speech. This is the means by which they are forcing our society to fully accept their lifestyle as morally, socially, legally, religiously, politically and financially equivalent to the heterosexual lifestyle, which it clearly is not. And this is why those of us who oppose homosexuality are becoming increasingly vocal and activist about it; we would be willing to tolerate homosexual people keeping their perversions behind closed doors where they belong, but when they take these things into the public arena and try to foist them on society in general, then we push back, and rightly so. Read more at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/09/03/the-gay-agenda-what-in-the-world-i s-going-on/

Report Abuse

DR R BLAIR

February 22, 2013  5:14pm

The crowds stirred up by the uncomprehendingly "orthodox" preacher in Dallas should recall the crowds stirred up by Paul's uncomprehendingly "orthodox" enemies in Jerusalem (Acts 22). Here we go again. Of course.

Report Abuse

David Westerfield

February 22, 2013  4:58pm

With the exception of Shaun, [some of] these comments typify precisely why evangelicalism is fledgling under the weight of a culture that is forcibly removing moral constraints upon it, a culture descending into moral anarchy and opposing all who stand in their way. And it has everything to do with the Gospel, because, if you've read the other articles from some of the sports writers, they consider the very notion of the exclusivity of Christ to be WITHIN the category of hate. Point is this: the time is coming for all of us, and is knocking at the door, when politely and calmly (yet clearly) stating Christ is Lord, in no uncertain terms, is itself hate speech, let alone speaking to specific sins.

Report Abuse

John Allman

February 22, 2013  4:54pm

"Those celebrating the moral normalization of homosexuality will demand an answer from us all. " Perhaps, and it remains our responsibility to share the truth in love in a winsome manner. This is best done one on one. We have to build relationships, and listen. Public statements are taken out of context too easily in this day and age of 3 second sound bites. Get to know people, show them love, then share the truth. We do not need famous Christians or even celebrity preachers to tell the world where we stand on this issue. We should do it individually. It is the job of the church to equip the body for the task at hand. Our leaders should speak out against and strongly discourage the type of incendiary language that Mr. Jeffress and others are unfortunately accustomed to using.

Report Abuse

Shaun DuFault

February 22, 2013  3:54pm

Adam, It is not ridiculous. You are correct that Tebow did not create the controversy, the media did and he chose poorly. Adam, if your contention is true, then Tebow should have never rescinded his invitation to speak at the Dallas church. Tebow rather listen to the media and what they wanted him to do instead of doing the right thing and honor his commitment. You mistake that this has nothing to do with the Gospel. Peter poorly associated himself with those who diminished the Gentiles and Paul called him out on it. Likewise, Tebow could associate with those who proclaim the Gospel or those who reject it. Sadly, he chose the later and not the former.

Report Abuse

james dauer

February 22, 2013  3:50pm

Tebow did the right thing. Validating the most vile expressions of our faith is why the world thinks of us as hate mongerers. Why do somany Christians think it's o.k. to bash homosexuals and non-believers? Some of these socalled Christians seem to delight in making sttements about the impending death of the infidels. Driscoll is the same way in Seattle. He loves to bash gays on the one hand and then pretend to be all holy and loving on the other. I reject you fake Christian leaders and I see you for what you are and so does Christ.

Report Abuse

Adam Shields

February 22, 2013  3:36pm

That is ridiculous. Tebow did not create a controversy. He tried to avoid a controversy that was not created by him. That is what we should be doing as Christians. There is no reason that a person who has a good image should intentionally try to get himself drug around in the mud over an issue he didn't create. This is not about the gospel, this is about not associating with people that are going to drag you down.

Report Abuse