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Jeff Chu describes himself as gay, partnered, relatively politically conservative, and a member of a relatively liberal New York City congregation in a relatively conservative denomination (Reformed Church in America). He is far from his Southern Baptist ...

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audrey ruth

November 04, 2013  6:06pm

I think the gist of the issue is "How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about homosexuality?" How would we all answer the question "How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about adultery?" Or fornication? Or incest? Or pedophilia? Or any other form of immorality? Would we all be okay with adulterers staging parades and calling for ADULTERER PRIDE? I don't think so. This in fact probably sounds ludicrous, as it should. How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about homosexuality? The very same way evangelical churches should talk about any other issue which the Lord God says is sin.

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Tim Loyal

September 23, 2013  8:02am

We can not put a blanket on the Bible and say all things we do not like is now offensive and judgmental. The Word is how we know what is right and what is wrong. Read Ezekiel 3:21 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Sin is sin. Nothing more and nothing less. Sin is death. Death is eternal for those without Jesus. Whatever your sin, if you live it then you are held accountable for it. If your family, your brothers and sisters in Christ, do not warn you and help you then the sin is theirs also. We all grow spiritually together. If one is lost the Father leaves the rest and goes after the one. How Jesus chooses to help another is not for us to know or decide. But the Word is just and truth. We obey and we love. If you do not obey the Word and chose yourself the Word will cut. If you want to know more about Jesus then contact me psalm46.org

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J G

July 29, 2013  10:54pm

The Church is called to preach Christ to the world, and Christlikeness to itself, and NOT to reverse the two.

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audrey ruth

April 24, 2013  2:18am

Patrick, a couple of thoughts which came to mind as I read your post: 1) If being 'gay' was genetic, there would be no identical twins where one identifies as 'gay' and the other doesn't 2) According to God's Word, homosexual behavior is not a mental issue; it's a spiritual issue 3) According to God's Word, this (and any other form of immorality as He defines it) IS indeed immorality. I don't know if you receive God's Word as Truth, or not -- Jesus said to the Father, "Thy Word IS truth." He asked the Father to sanctify His people through His truth. Jesus said to His followers, "If you continue in My Word, you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." There were believers in the NT church who had lived a homosexual lifestyle before they became new creatures in Christ Jesus; Ephesians 2 speaks of this. In Romans 1, the Lord shows how serious an issue this is, and His Word to Jude shows this also. All of this is written in the New Testament, is in the the New Covenant.

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Rick Dalbey

April 06, 2013  3:32pm

Karen, we reading the same blog? “hard to fathom the ignorance being displayed about homosexuality and just downright nastiness.” “Degrading conversation” Who here is unfathomably ignorant, downright nasty and degrading? Adam was delivered from a gay orientation and has earned his right to speak. I've been very respectful and have cited my own failures. The Bible always regards homosexual behavior and desire as sin, just as it does adultery, fornication and theft. “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” No one is being singled as worse. “neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves...will inherit the kingdom of God"

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Karen K

April 06, 2013  11:25am

Wow--if many of these comments reflect the state of "Christian" sanctification today, the Church is in trouble. Its hard to fathom some of the ignorance being displayed about homosexuality and just downright nastiness. I wish Christianity Today didn't allow this kind of degrading conversation to go on. How does that further the Kingdom? There is nothing wrong with disagreement or holding to truth one believes about sexual ethics, but much of what I see here is far beyond disagreement. I also felt Paris' article was overly negative. Certainly she makes valid criticisms, but she doesn't do enough to listen for the story with a charitable heart. For another perspective on how conservative Christians can respond to this issue in a more productive fashion than is displayed in this comment thread I recommend this article on a gay student's experience at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University: http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/being-gay-at-jerry-falwell s-university/274578/

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Irv Spielberg

April 04, 2013  12:23am

[Thanks, CT. I spotted the following creation on the stimulating web. Any reactions?] (The following paper was inspired by Bill O'Reilly whose TV show favors God Dumpers and not "Bible Thumpers." Quotes are from "Vital Quotations" by Emerson West.) DANGEROUS BIBLE THUMPERS OF AMERICA ROBERT E. LEE: "In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." (p. 21) DANIEL WEBSTER: "If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper." (p. 21) JOHN QUINCY ADAMS: "I have made it a practice for several years to read the Bible through in the course of every year." (p. 22) ABRAHAM LINCOLN: "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Saviour of the world is communicated to us through this book." (p. 22) GEORGE WASHINGTON: "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." (p. 22) HORACE GREELEY: "It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a Bible-reading people." (p. 23) THOMAS JEFFERSON: "I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by himself to be the most pure, benevolent, and sublime which have ever been preached to man. I adhere to the principles of the first age; and consider all subsequent innovations as corruptions of this religion, having no foundation in what came from him." (p. 45) THOMAS JEFFERSON: "Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from his lips, the whole civilized world would by now have become Christian." (p. 47) BENJAMIN FRANKLIN: "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." (p.49) WOODROW WILSON: "The sum of the whole matter is this----that our civilization cannot survive materially unless it be redeemed spiritually. It can only be saved by becoming permeated with the spirit of Christ and being made free and happy by practices which spring out of that spirit." (p. 143) PATRICK HENRY: "There is a just God who presides over the destiny of nations." (p. 145) THOMAS JEFFERSON: "Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction." (p. 225) THOMAS JEFFERSON: "Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus." (p. 237) GEORGE WASHINGTON: "The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low, that every person of sense and character detests and despises it." (p. 283) BENJAMIN FRANKLIN: "Here is my creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the universe. That he governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshiped." (p. 301) CALVIN COOLIDGE: "The strength of a country is the strength of its religious convictions." (p. 305) GEORGE WASHINGTON: "The perpetuity of this nation depends upon the religious education of the young." (p. 306) Prior to our increasingly "Hell-Bound and Happy" era, America's greatest leaders were part of the (gulp) Religious Right! Today we've forgotten God's threat (to abort America) in Psa. 50:22----"Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver." Memo to God Dumpers: In light of Rev. 16:19, can you be sure you won't be in a city that God has already reserved for destruction?

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adam vergara

April 03, 2013  7:41pm

@patrick okay I read the scriptures and the bible is very clear on the matter homosexual sex is immoral. I read all the research I could find on the matter and trust me its not in the DNA. You are indirectly referencing the Levay study which tried to find a biological component to homosexuality but had methodological flaws and the results were unreplicateable, Levay himself was distraught to find gay activist groups touting his research because he acknowledged that his research was flawed to a unusable degree. oh and the term homophobia places traditional belief in that of the category of illogical fear. You also forget moral agency meaning you ultimately decide how you act. I know your hearts in the right place but this is still a moral issue and I feel that either you or someone close to you is in the gay lifestyle just know that change is possible but you must be motivated if want a good chance at change.

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Patrick Flynn

April 03, 2013  7:22pm

LGBTI people are a minority group and should not be seen as a threat to society. Their non-acceptance by bigots and homophobic misinformed people is the very reason behind the PRIDE marches. They are simply making a statement. There are many affirming churches who embrace and welcome LGBTI people, and i am sure Jesus would have as well. We know of countless gay & lesbian couples who are Christians, married and living pure lives and serving in the local church. Their genuine love for God and sense of community is overwhelming. For those who think that "homosexuality" is a mental disorder you couldn't be further from the truth and you are very deceived. Take the time to search the scriptures, in context and in cultural setting. Understand what it means to be a gay Christian. This is not a question of morality , but its time the church wakes up and embraces ALL people. It is God's will that ALL should be saved. Your sexual orientation is part of your DNA its not a choice or a "phase"

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adam vergara

March 31, 2013  9:31pm

@johnny p right on the money with the narcissism and mental disorder of homosexuality. Let me explain homosexuality could be considered a disorder because the definition of normal is that which functions by it's design and homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide, abuse nicotine, abuse alcohol, abuse hard drugs so distress, disadvantage being unable to have kids the normal way(unless from previous relationship with person of opposite sex), AIDS risk increased tremendously, Lower life expectancy. Believe me here change is possible for sexual orientation, I used to have homosexual inclinations (I never acted on them so changing to straight was easier for me than others). What upsets me is when someone says if your gay its okay but the bible is clear on the matter so I say no it is a sin and disordered do not affirm someone into a dangerous lifestyle but help them out of it. If you want the truth visit NARTH.com.

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Cory konners

March 29, 2013  10:06pm

The short answer is yes: Jesus will not accept you; because of your hard heart and hate for him. If you truly loved Jesus you would repent publically of your sin, turn from it and then do works of righteousness. Those works would be warning others that a life style of rebellion against God will get you hell and the wrath of God. That, folks, is the simple Gospel and you can find it in any Bible.

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Frank Keefe

March 29, 2013  3:56pm

Human beings it seems never learn lessons from the past. The first lie by Satan( yes I believe such a being exists) said eat of the FORBIDDEN fruit and live forever and we know how that ended up.Today we are still listening to his lies but this time the FORBIDDEN FRUIT IS HOMOSEXUALITY. You have to hand it to the great ENEMY his deception has taken in not just the secular world but the religious world.Of all the sins the sin of the flesh has now become respectable with advocates of homosexuality saying its natural and its all about LOVE this is the deception.When you say homosexuality is a sin your attacking God who is love and gay people " love"each other. True followers of The Lord should know from scripture that this would happen and is one of the signs of Jesus imminent return "as it was in the days of Noah and Sodom & Gomorrah so will it be in the last days ( Im paraphrasing ). Those liberal leaders in the church who lead other Christians astray on homosexuality will be judged.

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audrey ruth

March 28, 2013  11:00pm

Jonny, your post brought this old (and true) rhyme to mind: “Sin is a monster of such awful mien, That to be hated needs but to be seen. But seen too oft, familiar with face -- We first endure, then pity, then embrace."

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Jonny Peters

March 28, 2013  10:45pm

@ Gerald Goffin G.K. Chesterton was correct when he noted that "perversion becomes convention" through the "illusion of familiarity". Homosexuality is the enemy of civilization. Homosexuality is sex for sex's sake. It turns the act of love into an act of selfishness. At its worst, it is the apogee of narcissism. Unfortunately, the ideas promoted by queer theorists has percolated throughout society to the point that it has influenced even well-meaning but intellectually unsophisticated "progressive" Christians. We must treat homosexuals like those suffering a mental disorder, because that is exactly what it is. If anything, we should have pity on these people. However, our pity cannot be untruthful.

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audrey ruth

March 27, 2013  10:52pm

Traditional marriage began in Genesis with the first man and the first woman. God performed the first marriage. Jesus affirmed in Matthew 19 His definition of marriage. The reason adultery (and other forms of immorality) are more like homosexual acts than slavery, is that slavery is not a form of sexual immorality. (Slavery CAN be compared to abortion, which also defines a person as less than.) Why did Jesus not teach the Jewish people (to whom He was sent) His Word about homosexual acts? For the same reason He did not need to address the issues of incest, bestiality, etc. He always addressed Jews, and they already knew the moral law of God (which is in effect throughout all of time, as noted throughout the NT, including the Revelation). Read what Jesus said in Matthew 19, and you'll see why He needed to reiterate God's view (and definition) of marriage. NOTE: He sent Paul to the Gentiles, who did not already know God's moral law; Paul DID have to instruct them, as seen in his letters.

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faith moore

March 27, 2013  1:16pm

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."-2 Timothy 4:3-4...If you are a christian that struggles with sin please know that God hates sin! He doesn't pretend that it doesn't exist. He doesn't sweep it under the rug. Instead of running to man for answers to life issues, run to God..seek him. He's a very personal God. Let his Love, character, compassion, wisdom and authority be your guide. Otherwise we will look for excuses to continue in our own fleshly desires.

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GARY ROSEBOOM

March 27, 2013  11:13am

There is no "perceived chasm" when it comes to homosexual practice (or any other sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman). The Bible is very clear -- and so is the chasm between those who choose to accept God's Word and those who attempt to find a way around it.

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Gerald Goffin

March 27, 2013  8:28am

"Traditional marriage", in the Christian context, is actually polygamy. Just ask Saul, David, and Solomon. I always wondered why monogamy, homosexuality, and slavery were not a part of the 10 Commandments. Perhaps it is about culture? Many commentators have used the analogy of adultery when discussing homosexuality. I wonder if slavery is a better analogy given how many churchs used the Bible to justify racism. Adultory occurs generally when one violates marriage vows; gay marriage seems to value the institution of marriage by extending it to same sex couples. I wonder if our younger folks seem less concerned re: gay marriage because they do not share the same uncomfortability and ambivalence we older folks have with sexuality?; they appear to see relationship when all we see is sex? Finally, I wonder why Jesus did does not appear to spend time on this issue but rather emphasized broader moral concerns related to poverty, the sick, and loving one's neighbor?

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audrey ruth

March 26, 2013  3:41pm

I think the gist of the issue is "How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about homosexuality?" How would we all answer the question "How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about adultery?" Or fornication? Or incest? Or pedophilia? Or any other form of immorality? Would we all be okay with adulterers staging parades and calling for ADULTERER PRIDE? I don't think so. This in fact probably sounds ludicrious, as it should. How SHOULD evangelical churches talk about homosexuality? The very same way evangelical churches should talk about any other issue which the Lord God says is sin.

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Rick Dalbey

March 26, 2013  3:40pm

Kristina, when you say, Isn’t it supposed to be about love, as if that is ALL that mattered, you set yourself up to be decieved. Yes, God is Love, but God is also a Consuming Fire, God is Holy, God is Righteous and even times God is Angry. Jesus is not one dimensional, not an abstract force. John says, He is returning with a sword to judge the nations and will send those whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of Life into hell. As Paul says, “Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ” God is many things, let’s not just take one quality, abstract it and make an Idol. I don’t hate homosexuals, but I do have to be obediant to what scripture says or else I will be decieved, as Paul says.

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