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This week's surprising decision by Exodus International to, after nearly four decades as the world's largest ministry focused on homosexuality, apologize, shut down, and start over has drawn headlines worldwide.

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Displaying 1–21 of 21 comments

Konstantine Michailidis

June 26, 2013  9:52pm

I recently read a letter in CT by a homosexual in response to an article on homosexuality and the church. He was in a church that was accepting of homosexuality and there were homosexuals attending, obviously with freedom to 'relate' to each other. By his account, they were exploiting each other and him. As a homosexual, he realised that this was not the way that the church should be operating. He asked the questions which I have never heard asked in that way before:" Did God create homosexuals? Did He create a particular group of men to be sodomised by other men? Did God create one group especially to be degraded, demasculinised (new word?) and demoralised by other men?" I am tired of hearing people talk about Jesus and the Gospel apart from the context of God's truth and especially His creational truth. Of course God loves GBLT people. But that is not the gospel! A church that is so open to gays that it allows them to be what they want to be against God's creational will, will be held responsible by God for the exploitation by gays of other gays, and also for the spiritual, psychological and physical damage that they inflict on themselves and each other and for not holding out a real hope to them. Not just a hope for change, but an eternal hope. Arguments about therapies and whether they can change people are an academic game. We need to get back to the Truth of God if we are going to be a church that is worthy of that name. Jesse- Penne Lewis reminded us that before we can know the God of love, we must know the God of Truth. The church is in great deception because we have not loved the truth. There is no other way out for the church but to be 'the household of God... the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.' (1Tim 3:15). There is so much confusion in the church that this issue of homosexuality is bringing. God is not a God of confusion.

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Manny Dee

June 26, 2013  4:32pm

The reason you see so many leaders in ex-gay ministry fall is that they go from seeking the spotlight as a drag queen, etc. to seeking the spotlight as a ministry leader. They seek the fame rather than the relationship with Jesus that will bring about the lasting freedom from SSA's that I have walked in for over 20 years. I know because I know them all. I’ve know them well and for a very long time. John Paulk, John Smid, Alan Chambers and unfortunately others. They have all been game players who skip the step where you surrender all that you are and all of your desires to the only One who can ever meet all of your needs--Jesus Christ. The one who can give us more than we ever thought or asked. You call him the "face of gay conversion therapy". That is his problem. First, he is not. Second-that is what he wanted--even more than he wanted healing. There are hundreds of us working out here, not seeking the spotlight, who are seeing men and women experiencing healing beyond their hopes and dreams. Marriages are being restored and entire families reconciled. As far as apologizing to the gay community, they can only speak for themselves--not for me and many others who The reason you see so many leaders in ex-gay ministry fall is that they go from seeking the spotlight as a drag queen, etc. to seeking the spotlight as a ministry leader.They seek the fame rather than the relationship with Jesus that will bring about the lasting reedom from SSA's that I have walked in for over 20 years. I know because I know them all. John, John Smid, Alan Chambers and unfortunately others. They have all been game players who skip the step where you surrender all that you are and all of your desires to the only One who can ever meet all of your needs--Jesus Christ. The one who can give us more than we ever thought or asked. You call him the "face of gay conversion therapy". That is his problem. First, he is not. Second-that is what he wanted--even more than he wanted healing. There are hundreds of us working out here, not seeking the spotlight, who are seeing men and women experiencing healing beyond their hopes and dreams. Marriages are being restored and entire families reconciled. As far as apologising to the gay community, they can only speak for themelves--not for me and many others who love and walk with people who are gay and do not judge them. I am sorry they have had bitterness toward gays--but I do not. You may see more leaders fail. But that does not mean that the work and the minstry is not well. It is! Freedom is not found in people--but only in a heart that desires to be a disciple of Jesus Christ more than anythinglove and walk with people who are gay and do not judge them. I am sorry they have had bitterness toward gays--but I do not. You may see more leaders fail. But that does not mean that the work and the ministry is not well. It is! Freedom is not found in people--but only in a heart that desires to be a disciple of Jesus Christ more than anything

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RAYMOND HOOKER

June 26, 2013  2:46pm

Bob, I can understand your concern about what the idea that it is not God given says to those struggling with same sex attraction.. but that is an honest issue that needs to be faced. It is important to say that there are many different experiences and that even the science is not clear on this matter. It is not just those who want to believe that homosexuality is simply a choice who are being simplistic. Even those in the gay community recognize that there are different experiences, and the question of nature versus nurture is far from settled scientifically. You can even look at the APA report that indicates that they cannot tell whether same sex orientation can be changed, though they do add they are cynical. The reason is that no adequate study has been done. I don't say this to add pain to anyone struggling with the issue, but simply to say that it is not cut and dried. The point though is that are many things which God did not intend but that happen to people.

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Bob Bobo

June 26, 2013  10:51am

Leah siad: "always been Christians that know sexual orientation is deeply ingrained and genereally cannot be changed' But she goes on to say that it is not "God given". OK Leah, so you've just condemmed all those souls.

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James Aist

June 25, 2013  10:37am

“Born gay” is, in fact, a hoax of mammoth proportions. Most of the relevant information can be grouped into three main categories: biological studies, cultural evidence and social factors. The critical question is whether homosexuality is already determined at birth by biological factors and is immutable (unchangeable), or develops later as a result of post-natal experiences and factors, and is fluid (changeable). The evidence strongly supports the view that homosexuality develops primarily as a result of post-natal experiences and factors, and is fluid (changeable). You can find the documentation for this at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/07/07/are-homosexuals-really-born-gay/

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James Aist

June 25, 2013  10:30am

Dr. Roger Miller - Those numerous studies I refer to are not at all out of date; good clinical and scientific research never is never out of date. And, for the same reason, they cannot be discredited. Of course, the gay lobbyists, such as yourself, will claim over and over again that they have been discredited, hoping that if you repeat this lie enough, people will begin to believe it. Your problem with me is that I have done the research, and for that reason, I cannot be fooled by your denial of the truth. And BTW, your citing of our mental health organizations as evidence against change is hilarious. These groups have become political slaves of the homosexual movement, as I have amply documented at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2013/01/19/mental-health-organizations-politi cal-slaves-of-the-homosexual-movement/

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Bob Bobo

June 25, 2013  10:18am

"jack" R is right on. There are two views. 1. Being "gay" is a sin, and the christin veiwpoint is, "its no worse than other sins" so lets try and be more loving. But its still a "sin". 2, There our christians who believe it is not s "sin". Personally, I don't know what to believe when I've read theological papers that seem to make sense that the NT is not talking about "gays' as we define them today. But then I read other papers that make me wonder if the scripture does condem homosexual relationships. I"m not theologian. But I do know Good Christian believers are suffering with their emotions over this. And after years of praying it go away they realize its a part of them. And its not because they were "abused" or had bad parents or truama. And the most redicoulos advice I've heard is to tell a gay person just don't act on it and you're OK. What balderdash. The debate exists people. So what am I to believe.

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DUANE Watts

June 24, 2013  8:54pm

Roger Miller: One man's rant is another man's discussion is another man's preaching. None the less I find somewhat of your rant worthy to be engaged. You wrote [evidence] "is denounced by every respected professional psychological and mental health organization in the nation". Sir, if it was not denounced, those organizations would not be respected by those who write the rules. Such groups have been cited in the past to support such abominations as infanticide, euthanasia, and pedophilia. Your argument on its face lacks force.

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BRUCE MASON

June 24, 2013  5:22pm

Well said, Jack.

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Jack Ratekin

June 24, 2013  1:49pm

Leah Sp. your choice to be celibate is exactly that - your choice. no one is telling you that your attraction to the opposite sex is sinful, and created by the devil, are they? You choose to be celibate, to not be married for whatever reason. After all, if you wanted to be married I'm sure you could find someone to marry. You may not like them or they may not be all you hoped, but you could find somebody. I have no quibble with that. However, you want to equate your situation with something entirely different. imagine that everyone said to you, (assuming you are heterosexual) that you must marry, and have sexual relations with, another woman? Would that be repugnant to you? Imagine also that your repugnance to the idea of having sex with another woman is considered to be sinful. Now you will start to understand the difference. That is, if you care to.

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Timothy Gordon

June 24, 2013  1:19pm

Roger, you have made some broad sweeping statements without specific proof or evidence that NARTH's or Jones and Yarhouse's research has been discredited. This is akin to saying that reparative therapies for other addictions like alcoholism and drugs should be dismissed because they have been discredited and then providing no specific proof. The issue is that we all have a sin problem of one kind or another and we don't do anyone any favors by shoving them under the rug and pretending they don't exist.

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J G

June 24, 2013  9:59am

James A, your exact same arguments can be used to describe and explain the desire to be non-monogamous. Such things are the result of sin entering the world, and with homosexuality and other sinful inclinations are just the myriad expressions of our brokenness due to sin. It is not the inclination or orientation that is the sin -- that is just the brokenness. Rather, it is acting on it that is sin. Same with fornication, adultery, etc.

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James Aist

June 22, 2013  5:57pm

It is slander to accuse God of making people homosexual. The Bible clearly and consistently condemns homosexual behavior as sin (Genesis 19:5 with Jude 1:7; Leviticus 18:22; Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; I Corinthians 6:9-10; and I Timothy 1:10). Now, if God himself were to instill same-sex attractions and desires into homosexual people, then, by doing so, He would be tempting them to sin sexually. However, the Bible also states, emphatically, that God does not tempt anyone to sin (James 1:13-14). The necessary conclusion is that the God of the Bible would not create anyone homosexual, because to do so would violate His very nature and character, which is to hate sin. Same-sex sexual attraction (i.e., homosexuality) is a result of sin entering the world through the disobedience of Adam. Read more at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/07/07/are-homosexuals-really-born-gay/

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Leah Sp

June 22, 2013  3:30pm

Dr Roger, there have always been Christians that know sexual orientation is deeply ingrained and generally cannot be changed. But it is certainly not God given. At least not of the God of the bible. Christians are also well aware of the sexual sins of ancient cultures. And if you look at ancient copies of the bible, there are no significant translation errors. That is an old and discredited argument. Anything but heterosexual orientation is the result of sin, and not Gods will. The proper response for Christians dealing with this sin is abstinence. And before I hear how awful that would be, tell it to the many celibate (by choice or not) heterosexual Christians.

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Pat L

June 22, 2013  12:09pm

Here is an excellent article regarding the closing of Exodus International. The author was also mentioned in the above article. https://www.facebook.com/notes/christopher-yuan/my-response-to-the-closing- of-exodus-international-full/557204404323303

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Dr. Roger Miller

June 22, 2013  8:58am

Melissa, Exodus isn't and has never been a church. Alan isn't a Pastor. He's a gay man who doesn't want to be but who now admits he still is gay no matter how hard he tries NOT to be. It's not about the being in some "Church," it's about telling EVERYONE that God's love expressed in Jesus is boundless. That's Good News. Unfortunately much of the church is bad news, not gospel, for LGBT folk.

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Melissa Welch

June 22, 2013  12:17am

It bothers me that the Church is FORCED to accept this.In all due respect..It's popular in our culture to lay out the red carpet to homosexual folk in all aspects.Getting the Church involved and applauding each time a gay person is sworn into the ministry.every time time all y'all get married.It should'nt matter.The folks that went to this ministry were clearly convicted about their homosexuality.They did'nt have to stay in this Church if they felt the message of the Church did'nt fit right.Why would someone even begin going there.I don't consider these men and women to be victims at all.It's one of those 'Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile'. Same-sex marriage has become a big part of even the politics in our country.It's became a giant agenda.This Pastor was kinda strong-armed into closing his Church.Very few change their perspective at all.The most us are just giving you lip.Take your foot off the gas.I ain't saying what my beliefs are on the subject.No one would care anyways.

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Dr. Roger Miller

June 21, 2013  10:50pm

By the way, those "numerous studies"showing high success rates of orientational change are largely out of date and discredited. Do the research. Much of NARTH's material has been widely shown to be fabricated and is denounced by every respected professional psychological and mental health organization in the nation. It's time for many more honest Christian media and leaders to follow the lead of Progressive Christian leaders and media and admit that they were wrong on this one too. The world really isn't flat, the sun DOES revolve around the earth, and gays sexual orientation doesn't change no matter what anti-gay zealots claim to the contrary. BTW even Christopher Yuan (Formerly a drug addict and gay man with HIV now teaching at Moody Bible Institute and quoted in this article) doesn't claim to have "changed" orientation.

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Dr. Roger Miller

June 21, 2013  10:32pm

"Evangelical" ignorance about sex in general and homosexual orientation in particular is profound. No one "chooses" their gender attraction -- it's a part of our God-given humanity. Those who prattle about "homosexual lifestyle" betray how little they know about this issue. And those who rant on about the "Biblical model of sexuality" betray their ignorance of the diverse examples and models of family life and sexuality portrayed in Scripture. Seldom do "Evangelical" scholars research the cultural, historical, and literary context of the verses with which they condemn millions of GLBT individuals. Ignorance of ancient cultures of Bible times as well as personal biases and misunderstandings of translators can produce profoundly inaccurate results with the translated text. Where's the scholarship? Alan Chambers knows that those who tout the lies of "cures" for LGBT's are driving the next generation AWAY from Jesus and the real Gospel of God's profound grace and love for all.

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DL Foster

June 21, 2013  9:38pm

Indeed, the season for Exodus has gratefully come to an end. Alan Chambers was in part a serious obstruction to the work of those of us who are serious about helping lead people out of homosexuality and into holiness. Perhaps, now there will not be this circus sideshow that Exodus under Chambers' reign has carried on for the past 3 years. And the work of the kingdom can be flow as it was intended. The Overcomers Network has released an official statement regarding the collapse of Exodus. http://www.gcmwatch.com/10265/overcomers-network-responds-to-exodu s-collapse

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James Aist

June 21, 2013  6:17pm

Numerous studies have shown that both religiously and secularly mediated change in sexual orientation occurs in highly motivated, dissatisfied homosexuals at success rates of around 25%-30%, which is comparable to the success rates generally achieved by therapists and counselors for treatment of psychological disorders and behavioral problems, such as alcoholism. Find out what ministries still offer biblical help to dissatisfied homosexuals at http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/07/11/homosexuality-good-news/

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