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"Shut up and pray" summed up the first day of this year's Catalyst conference. It was "eloquently" spoken by Eugene Cho, lead pastor at Quest Church in Seattle, who was leading a lab on "Start from Scratch: Creating Something ...

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Robert Burke

October 09, 2013  12:31pm

The weirdest thing about true ascension unto Christ-in-You awareness, is that it is truly, truly: ascension. No more lies... about anything. So many leaders in Evangelical Christianity literally cannot fathom, in their minds, Christ-in-You's higher worldview, or Weltanschauung. For example: Progressivism's memes and tropes and lines and precepts... tend to be false. Look 180 and you will find God's truth: Western Enlightenment's self-correction (Progressivism loathes correction!) and pledging mutual dedication to self-restraint and individual empowerment... is actually, God's best environment for Christ-in-You promulgation. Christ-in-You promulgation enables in each individual proper accord with all that's good and proper discord with bad. Yet the problem is: current leadership can't mentally ascend to... www.inthatdayteachings.com ... the higher ways many seek! A paradox it is, needing faith! Great faith! No more Evangelical tyrants! No more wolves! Ascension! Hurraye!

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Robert Burke

October 09, 2013  12:14pm

What if the next big conference looked wide angle and heralded this cogency: Orthodox expressions seem to get truth correct but spirit lifeless. Whereas Evangelical expressions use dispensationalism for fear-use; prosperity: greed-use; emergent/seeker-friendly: laziness-use. This then would be getting the truth wrong with spirit wrong, tho strong. Imagine a self-correction wherein a new expression gets worshipping God in spirit and truth! This expression would gladly expose how subtexts of fear, greed and laziness have been fused with texts of "gospiel." This expression would gladly repent that Christ-in-You is absent from the unintelligent mixture of wrong spirit or untruths. In other words, Christ-in-You is extremely intelligent and wise, and cannot live with shenanigan church half-truths! This higher teaching would expose a) showmanship, b) stage hypnotism, c) misdirection and d) suggestion... i.e. rube-making. Consider www.inthatdayteachings.com as this higher expression.

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Rick Dalbey

October 04, 2013  12:35pm

Most conservative evangelical commentaries interpret Matthew 25 that way. Unfortunately many religious traditions that don't believe in a literal Bible treat the word of God loosely and use verses like these to justify world-wide income re-distribution, shutting down prisons and other utopian New World Order projects. We have an obligation to bless our neighbor, to aid the poor of the church and of our family. But most of all, we have an obligation to present the plan of salvation to a population headed to hell for eternity. This life is a brief vapor as the Bible says, we need to get our priorities straight. Eternity is in the balance.

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Rick Dalbey

October 04, 2013  12:24pm

Liz, praise God that people met Jesus at your homeless outreach! That's cool! I'll support almost anything that allows workers to present the gospel to the unsaved. Jesus fed the 5000 because He had a unique situation, the people were hungry and they were way out in the wilderness. I was just pointing out that this was not a template for relieving global hunger. And you are exactly right the church should be taking care of the poor in its midst. Paul talks about taking care of your family. He also says that families should take care of relatives, their widows. If a widow was over 60, a faithful believer and had no relatives to care for her, Paul established a safety. Wouldn't it be awesome if the Church did that today? I am not laying down rules. People use Matt. 25 to say you will go to hell for not visiting prisons or feeding the world. Matt. 25 refers to the world mistreating His persecuted brothers and sisters during the end times, that's why they go to hell, they hate Christians.

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Liz T

October 04, 2013  12:20pm

Rick, Thank you for pointing out that observation for me. I had never though about Matt 25 that way!

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Liz T

October 04, 2013  1:20am

Also, Rick, are you saying that Jesus only fed the 5000 people in order to show them this awesome miracle? Maybe you could clarify your comment a little bit more for me.

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Liz T

October 04, 2013  1:17am

Rick, It was a common practice in the church around Paul's time that when one of their members lacked food, the rest would provide for them until they could provide for themselves. While we are called to preach the gospel, we are also called to give to the poor. Both are important. Testimonies are extremely powerful in leading people to God, as is healing, prophecy, and other spiritual gifts. BUT so is bringing people food and things that they need. I worked at a homeless outreach over the summer, where we would give food to homeless people. This provided them with a meal and a way for us to talk to them about Jesus. Many of them have become believers because of this ministry, but if we hadn't presented food at first, they would not have been interested in anything we had to say. I'm not saying that we shouldn't share the gospel. Also, when you say, "He's talking about persecuted faithful followers" are you saying that he is only telling us to help those who already follow him?

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Rick Dalbey

October 04, 2013  1:06am

Liz, Jesus fed 5000 people because they'd traveled with Him for 3 days, watching the healing and listening to teaching and had brought no food. This is not a welfare program, it is a miracle. Matthew 25 is an answer to the diciples question about the end times as all the parables in 24 and 25 are. These were persecuted believers He was talking about during the end times. He says, “to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine.” Who are Jesus brothers? He spells it out several times in Matthew. “Who is My mother and who are My brothers? And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! For WHOEVER DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN, HE IS MY BROTHER and sister and mother.” He's talking persecuted faithful followers. You can fix all the social problems in this brief world, but we are going to hell for eternity unless we are born again. You are re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. We are called to preach salvation.

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Liz T

October 04, 2013  12:38am

Rick, Jesus also fed 5,000 people. He said, "I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat" and that whenever we did this for another human being, we were doing it for him. I'm bothered that there are certain injustices going on in the world, such as the sex trade, and things can be done to stop those injustices from happening if we work together. What good would it do if I went to a brothel and preached the word of God but did nothing to help set the sex slaves free? What good would it do if I went to a poor country and preached the gospel, but the people were so focused on getting food that they didn't have time for God? I know that preaching the gospel should be the center of our missions, but it is also important to share God's kingdom by working together to help people out of evils in this world.

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Rick Dalbey

October 03, 2013  8:03pm

If your goal, like Eugene Cho, is to cure world hunger, solve global poverty or save the environment, you will fail. As Jesus said to Judas the social worker/zealot, "the poor you will always have with you." We preach the gospel to the poor. The gospel doesn't solving global poverty or save the environment. However, if your goal is to participate in the harvest you will succeed and be filled with joy. He commissioned the 12 to preach and heal, the 72 to preach and heal and then the entire church to preach and heal. Life here is a vapor, it is short compared to eternity and Jesus commissioned the church during this brief period to bring as many dying people into the kingdom as possible. Why don't we have a conference on that? The only thing that limits the harvest is the lack of laborers. Catalyst is mostly about income redistribution and social change, the liberal side of Dominionism that Rick Perry was so lambasted for. I'm disappointed Mark.

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Bronwyn Lea

October 03, 2013  3:20pm

One of the most remarkable sermons I heard on prayer began with someone coming up to the front to "begin with an opening prayer." She started out: "Our Father," and just as my liturgically trained mind was read to chime in "who art in heaven," a LOUD voice came over the sound system saying "yes, my child?" The dramatic sketch illustrated how often we pray forgetting someone is listening, and more than that - our father who LOVES us and is deeply invested in what's going on with us. As one in a public teaching ministry, I am often in danger of praying as a formula to increase effectiveness. but prayer is not magic juju, and I needed this reminder today. Thank you so much, Bronwyn (bronlea.com)

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Jane Jimenez

October 03, 2013  1:45pm

Mark, you touch on the danger of adopting prayer as the antidote for ministry burn-out. I can recommend an excellent book for anyone who wishes to explore this idea in depth: "The Soul of the Apostolate," by Jean-Baptiste Chatard, O.C.S.O. The title of Part 3 explains: "Without the Interior Life, the Active Life is full of danger: With it, it will guarantee progress in virtue." Note that the Interior Life (prayer & communion with God) produces virtue. Many would want it to produce success in ministry, a kind of "quid pro quo" for God to perform. While our ministries will improve life on earth, the only way to truly witness God to others is with our own personal relationship with God. Is it real? Ever-present? Holy? If not, our "soup kitchen" is just one more soup kitchen, feeding the body but not the soul. I can heartily recommend the book to anyone in ministry. It is a challenging but immensely valuable guide to the Interior Life.

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