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In August, Moody Bible Institute lifted its alcohol and tobacco ban for its 600 full-time employees, following recent similar moves by Wheaton College, Huntington University, and Asbury Seminary.

Moody spokesperson Brian Regnerus said the change ...

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Steve Skeete

December 14, 2013  4:47pm

Drunkenness is the sin not drinking. However, it is still true that the 'drinking' that Jesus and the disciples did, the spirit(s) they used and the context in which they did it is very unlike today'. Wine with or as part of a meal or at a wedding is not equivalent to modern 'social drinking'. Very few problem drinkers I know, and I know many, have ever had 'wine' with a meal. I find no biblical support for encouraging persons to 'drink socially' for 'relaxation', to 'unwind' after work, or when under stress, since for these there are other and probably far better alternatives. Face it, many believers want to appear 'cool' and be accepted by their peers. Almost everywhere you go today there is alcohol, particularly if you work in certain fields. Some Christians just do not want to feel left out or not with it, and are probably tired saying no. Christians going to their favorite 'bar' to have a 'drink', in the light of all the problems drinking causes, should give it a second thought.

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audrey ruth

December 10, 2013  1:11am

Gotcha, Rick. And the points I've made in my posts still stand. :)

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Rick Dalbey

December 07, 2013  1:31pm

Audrey, I am responding to Rev, Bruce Talso's rules. He bemoaned dropping the rule against adult staff drinking privately. "As the 21st Century Church continues to compromise its moral standard; blending in with the world, it loses its uniqueness. What will the Christian higher ed gurus dismiss next?" This was a ban on alcohol for the 600 full time adult employees. If people in their 40s, 50s and 60s can't figure out self control, all the laws in the world won't change them. I personally don't see removing a ban against alcohol as "the 21st century church compromising with the world". "What will the Christian higher ed gurus dismiss next?" Well, last year they dropped the ban against long hair for men. They still have a ban against visiting a comedy club. And they still have a ban on dancing. I'm with Paul; "These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires."

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audrey ruth

December 07, 2013  3:43am

Rick, I haven't made any rules for anyone. How on earth have I made rules for Paul, by quoting the truths the Lord imparted to his spirit? Again, that honestly sounds disingenuously dishonest to me. ALL I have done is to seek to address this subject from a Biblically balanced POV. You quote, ""Don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink..." Look at that, Rick - the key word is WHAT. I have not at any time said that complete abstinence is required. At the same time, I do think the phrase from the subtitle, "...alcohol as a moral good" is out of balance. The scripture from Ephesians: "Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit..." is the POSITIVE view I have sought to emphasize. As you and I both know, the fulness of the Holy Spirit never leads to stupid, destructive behavior or hangovers - only a high which no man can give, wherein we are partakers of the very glory of God and are equipped to minister to those who are lost and dying.

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Rick Dalbey

December 07, 2013  1:10am

Can't resist. One more; "Don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud, and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it. You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline." Col 2:16

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Rick Dalbey

December 07, 2013  12:48am

Audrey, we have to deal with the word of God as it is, not as we want it to be. I know that Jesus never was drunk. Drunkenness is a sin as gluttony is. I said "We know He did not condone drunkenness". But try as we might, we can't go beyond what the Bible teaches. I know what Rev. Talso meant. When he says "the world" it is Baptist code for those that drink and dance and go to movies. If we wanted a rules based religion, that is what Islam (1/3 of the world) is or Mormonism is. I suppose the reason this irritates me so much is not to defend drinking wine, but because the scripture is so clear, so obvious and so plain. Drunkenness is sin, gluttony is sin. Drinking is not, eating is not. If the Lord tells you, don't drink, then by all means, DON'T drink. But don't make rules for Paul, the apostles, Jesus, CS Lewis, Martin Luther and everyone else. Audrey I am sorry I let you down here. Usually we agree about everything. I'm glad Rev. Talso, you and the others here are all in the Kingdom.

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audrey ruth

December 06, 2013  11:54pm

Bruce, I agree with you 100%. Rick, I generally agree with the majority of your posts, but I really think you were disingenuously dishonest here. I think you knew what Bruce's point was. And, yes, we know that Jesus turned water into wine - later, He gave some very important teaching about pouring new wine into old wineskins - BUT there is no record that He or anyone else got drunk off of it. We do know He never sinned once, and drunkenness is listed as sin. It seems to me you're going out on a limb here to justify drinking alcohol. If drunkenness wasn't such a problem in this culture (and we know wine isn't the type of alcohol most consumed), I might be less concerned about that. IMHO, Christians should focus on the positive - being high on the Holy Spirit instead (see the Scripture reference below.) There's never any hangover or destructive behavior or resulting abuse or life-altering trauma, just true joy, peace, love - the abundant LIFE Jesus spoke of in John 10.

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Rick Dalbey

December 04, 2013  6:36pm

You are right Bruce. When the church acts like 1/3 of the world, the Muslims, it loses its ability to be distinctive. Muslims are prohibited in the Koran from drinking alcohol. They have grown up as rigid teetotalers for 1400 years alongside the Jews and Christians who joyfully celebrate life with wine. The world derisively called our King a "Wine-Bibber", one who is given to much drinking of wine. We know He did not condone drunkenness, but His first miracle was to create 180 gallons of fine wine. He drank wine at dinner parties, He served wine at passover and looked forward to the day He would drink wine together with the disciples in Heavan. "The Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine." Is. 25. He even said the the symbol of His blood was wine! Its crazy when the Church acts like Muslims or Mormons who have worldly rules like only serving water and bread at communion.

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Rev. Bruce Talso

December 04, 2013  4:33pm

I am reminded of a quote I heard some years ago "When the Church is most like the world it does least for the world. When the Church is least like the world, it does most for the world." As the 21st Century Church continues to compromise its moral standard; blending in with the world, it loses its uniqueness. What will the Christian higher ed gurus dismiss next? The message to Laodicea echos in our ears; "You say 'I am rich' with everything I want; I don't need a thing.' And don't you realize that spiritually you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." (Rev. 3:17 LB)

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audrey ruth

December 02, 2013  5:38pm

"Don't get drunk" - Amen, Jim. The fullness of the Holy Spirit never leads to a hangover or stupid, destructive behavior, only more joy and peace and contentment than anyone can possibly contain. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake (he may have had some sort of ailment). The key word there is "little". :)

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Jim Ricker

December 01, 2013  4:16pm

Don't get drunk - check! So being able to enjoy alcohol without getting drunk is biblical. Thanks Audrey Ruth!

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audrey ruth

December 01, 2013  3:24am

Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:18-21

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James Aist

November 27, 2013  9:40am

Finally, an article presenting the correct, and historical, and biblical view of alcohol! Thank you.

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Tim Childs

November 26, 2013  5:53pm

If you have a problem with something, keep away from it or completely abstain from it. If you have or have had a drink problem keep away from alcohol. If God brings you to a season of abstinence then heed His advice. But if you can drink in moderation, then why not? All in moderation seems to be the maxim here.

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Rick Dalbey

November 26, 2013  3:04pm

I didn't realize it but the editor of Christianity Today brews beer at home. This from his blog today; "I brew craft beer. Editor of the evangelical Christianity Today. Yes, it's true. A stout, brown, pale ale, and Belgian dubbel are my most recent works of culinary art." I knew I liked Mark Galli.

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DANIEL & TERRY UNRUH

November 25, 2013  10:46pm

Clyde, Certainly the question of how the natural world functioned before the intrusion of sin goes beyond the question of alcohol - I could not agree more! I am not sure why you say I believe God recreated the world between the end of Eden and Noah? Do we have any reason to believe that the human body would have aged/decayed in the Garden of Eden? Obviously after sin entered the Garden some of the processes whereby the human body grows and recreates itself began to work (or more accurately not work) in a different and clearly inferior manner. If you accept that change, why is it so impossible that the examples you speak of (which are based on our current observations of nature) may have functioned in a different manner?

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Clyde

November 25, 2013  10:11pm

DANIEL & TERRY UNRUH--when you ask whether fermentation is a sign of the fallen world. Wow. That comment goes beyond the issue of alcohol. When you ask that question, you automatically preclude deciduous and annual plants in the garden of Eden. You preclude earthworms. Despite the fact that well over 2/3 of a human's cells are bacteria, you preclude bacteria. And obviously, you preclude grain and grapes and yeast. If you preclude all of those things, then you are basically saying that you believe in part of the literal narrative of Genesis 2 (and Paul's interpretation), BUT that you also believe that God completely recreated the world at the end of Eden and before Noah. There is nothing in the Bible that even begins to say anything like that.

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Rick Dalbey

November 25, 2013  6:31pm

Daniel, Adam and Eve were given dominion over the animals and told to subdue the earth and cultivate the garden. “Subdue” (in Hebrew, “kabash”) describes taking control of a piece of land and subjugating it with the express purpose of yielding a benefit from it. Adam and Eve were growers and cultivaters. To cultivate (Abad) is also translated to “till”. Tilling turns over the soil, killing unwanted plants and providing fertile beds for disirable seeds. Cultivate also includes pruning to shape growth and increase fruit. Yeast, a one celled plant, grows naturally on the skins of grapes and quickly converts the grape’s sugars to alcohol. In order to make wine all one has to do is squeeze grapes. Nature does the rest. I’m not sure where your question is going, we have no idea whether they produced wine from the garden's grapes, but they did till, cultivate and take dominion for food and beauty. Whether death of plants constitutes death in your mind, they certainly ate and cultivated them.

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DANIEL & TERRY UNRUH

November 25, 2013  3:53pm

May I respectfully ask....was there fermentation in the Garden of Eden? Or is fermentation a sign of death and decay as the result of a natural world under the same curse of sin as mankind?

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James Cowles

November 25, 2013  9:02am

It's always been interesting to me that the "temperance movement" called itself the "temperance movement". As I understand it, the movement did not advocate temperance -- i.e., moderation -- but complete abstinence. Properly -- and honestly -- speaking, it should have called itself the "abstinence movement". And if the focus of the movement was temperance in everything, then why the single-minded emphasis just on alcohol. Bottom line: say what you mean & mean what you say.

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