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Christianity Today, July (Web-only), 2007 |

Honest Ecumenism, Again

As we said in 2000, the Vatican's statement on the nature of the church is a step forward, not backward, for Christian unity.

posted 7/11/2007 09:52AM

After weeks of speculation and commentary over the Vatican's action on the Latin Mass, media attention has now turned to twodocuments on Christian unity issued by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine ...

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John	Posted: July 17, 2007 8:26 AM

I don't know what all the fuss is about, considering the Catholic Church has always believed what the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith said. Two similar documents came out during John Paul II's papacy, and one from 2004 from Cardinal Walter Kasper received scant attention. Ecumenism is a one-way street, built on the Protestant ecclesiology that there is an invisible Church. When Protestants renounce the "Reformation," then ecumenism could have some positive fruits, until then, it's meaningless. The Church founded by the Christ through his apostles is and was a visible institution, just as the Jewish "church" before it was visible. Again, ecumenism amounts to a demand by Protestants that the Catholic Church accept the "Reformation," which would be to accept heresy.

Pio	Posted: July 13, 2007 11:53 AM

There are not over a hundred people in the US who hate the Catholic Church, but there are over a million people in the US who hate the Catholc Church for what they mistakenly believed to be the Catholic Church (Bishop Fulton J. Sheen). For Evangelicals Protestants, before you accuse the Catholic Church of erroneous doctrines or teachings, first you must get the facts straight. Not from people who have honest misconceptions, but from the very source itself - the Catholic Church. We have the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is a sure norm for teaching the Catholic faith. Read it with an open mind and heart and see if what you have heard and taught are actually true or not. In addition, you can also go to the Fathers of the Church who did numerous writings on about every aspect of faith. Read writings like that of Ignatius of Antioch, a personal disciple of John. Hear from the mouth of Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, etc. They are the closest to the time of the Apostles.

pastormark

Posted: July 12, 2007 11:13 AM

The New Covenant (the Gospel of Jesus Christ) is not religion; rather, it is that which makes all religion null and void (as far as having any influence in the increasing Kingdom of God). God put on a human suit not to establish another religion but rather to establish a relationship with any and all who are willing. Any attemts to "religionize" the New Covenant is the same as theives and robbers who crawl up in some other way. The Truth will set everyone free from any and all laws of sin and death. Any and all who preach anything but this truth at its core is either adding to or subtracting from the revealed Word of God!

Hobdy29

Posted: July 11, 2007 10:36 PM

"The Christian Church was born 29AD. The Catholic Church was born 268AD. The Gospel of Jesus Christ was first preached to Africa, Asia, and lastly Europe. In the 2nd book of Acts, the Apostle Philip was down in Gaza who was compelled by the Spirit of God to join an Ethopian Eunic on his chariot. That Ethiopian founded the "first Gentile Christian Church, better known as the Ethiopian Coptic Church. "Obviously, the pope has no accurate knowledge on who Peter was" 1. Peter was not a Pope nor cellibate; According to the book of Luke, he was a married man. 2. Peter was a Jew and a prejudice man like Jonah; he was cruicfied and died in Babylon while performing his commission preaching to the lost House of Israel, not in Rome. 4. Peter commented to Christ (on the Mount of Configuration) that he would like to build tabernacles for him, Elijha, and Moses. Our Eternal Heavenly father said: "This is my well beloved son, Hear ye him! (Jesus) It does not say pray to mary

Anonymous

Posted: July 11, 2007 6:24 PM


If I were the pope I would not bring up the subject of " false church". The worship of mary as co-redeemer is against everything the Bible teaches about Jesus being the only way one can be saved.

Ralph Gaily

Posted: July 11, 2007 4:13 PM


Oh, the amazing, wonderful, incredible difference between, "knowing a lot of facts about Jesus", ....and "knowing Jesus" !! if only they knew! .....,r

Anonymous

Posted: July 11, 2007 2:50 PM

Fr. J, when you say "Mr. White should consider that the Bible is a product of Catholic Tradition", how so? The 4 books of the Gospel and many of the other books of the New Testament were written long before what we know as the Catholic Church was formed. Also, what about the Old Testament? Surely you do not think that Catholic Tradition gave us this? Then if they were able to put that together without the help of Tradition, why not the New Testament? In regards to the actual article, like it said, it's nothing really new, just a reaffirmation of previous beliefs.

Fr. J

Posted: July 11, 2007 1:24 PM

I did learn what the Catholic Church taught. That turned me into a "papist." I realized that much of what I rejected had never been taught by the Catholic Church. I realized that while I denied papal infallibility, I believed firmly in my own. Mr. White should consider that the Bible is a product of Catholic Tradition. Also that the document does not deny that Protestants can be saved. I have heard far more Protestants express reservations about "papists" being saved then visa versa. My basic advice is to read the document.

A Hermit

Posted: July 11, 2007 12:59 PM

For the Catholic church it is a step forward. Yet St. Paul comments that in Christ there is neither man nor woman, slave nor free. St. Paul says that God is the reality in which we move and live and have our being. We are already united in the LIVING REALITY OF CHRIST. While doctrines and dogmas are important, we are called to unity in the transcendent reality of the Trinity (John's gospel) - an experiential union of being and persons, not concepts and beliefs. Perhaps if we prayed together in silence and acted as He acted, being loving community toward one another, recognizing Jesus in each person (non-Christian as well) and in all reality, we would be less concerned about doctrinal differences and our own failings.

M.Jeffrey White

Posted: July 11, 2007 12:56 PM


The Roman church has always demonstrated their autocracy in their man made beliefs and rituals. Jesus Christ is the head of any christian church. Salvation is a direct relationship with Jesus and not through any organized religious group who claim to control the entrance to heaven and salvation..Who told me so? The Bible.

Deacon Tom Shea

Posted: July 11, 2007 12:41 PM

Travis' use of the epithet "papist" when referring to Roman Catholics is insulting and certainly doesn't further either ecumenism or gentlemanly argument. Identifying us with but one element of our very complex ecclesiology and theology of faith demonstrates an alarming narrowness of perspective. I wonder if he refers to Evangelics as "Fundies" (ie Fundamentalists)? I fail to see how he is "bearing false witness against" us papists, by not knowing what WE fully believe. Frankly, most of the Evangelicals who have witnessed to me have impressed me with their ignorance of the scope and implications of what THEY purport to believe. I am a an old man who was catechized before the Second Vatican Council and I can honestly say that NEVER in all those years was I told from a Catholic pulpit or in classroom that non Catholics were condemned and should be hated and feared. In closing, if you're going to call us "papists" please at least capitalize it. God bless you all.

Travis

Posted: July 11, 2007 11:55 AM

The outrage by mainline protestants isn't suprising, it just shows the ignorance and laziness of most Christians when it comes to what they believe and why they believe it. So many Christians "think" they know what Rome teaches and ignorantly pass on what they've been "told" Rome teaches and believes, when in all reality they're just bearing false witness against the papists. We're so zealous about "evangelizing" different groups, but think we only have to know our set of beliefs. The last time I checked, one should know the beliefs of both systems in order to debate. Now to my point. If mainliners(protestants) did their homework they wouldn't be suprised by the pope's proclamation, they would be saying: "isn't that what Rome has always taught?". Why yes, it is what Rome has always taught! They would know that because they had properly studied what Rome teaches and believes so that they were able to deal with every obstacle that learned papists threw their way in a debate.

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