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Christianity Today, September, 2007 |

Latter-Day Politics

Mitt Romney believes American values, not Mormon doctrine, should rule a President.

Interview by Collin Hansen | posted 9/26/2007 08:48AM

Mitt Romney is not the first Mormon to run for President. Nor is he the highest-ranking Mormon in politics (that would be Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid). Yet his campaign to earn the Republican nomination ...

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Matt	Posted: October 03, 2007 2:44 PM


I'm hesitant to place Mormons under the Christian umbrella. Mormons are very good at making you think that they believe the same thing you do, despite that there are some major differences. However, I'll be sure to check out some of those websites everyone has posted, as this is a subject I know little about.

Zarry

Posted: October 03, 2007 1:49 PM

Further related debate can be found here: http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/24282/ I would also recommend you to the following: http://www.bookofabraham.info http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/testingthebookofmormon.htm http://www.lhvm.org/dna.htm http://www.i4m.com/think/ http://www.irr.org/mit/Books/BHOH/bhoh1.html http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm (investigating Mormonism) Let me finish with this: It is the orthodox of any religion who get to decide who is or is not part of their religion. There is a religion called FLDS which revere Joseph Smith as a prophet, and believe in the Book of Mormon and all other Mormon scriptures. He would tell you that the FLDS are NOT Mormons. He has that right, but he cannot have it both ways. If he wants to say that Mormons are Christian, then he has to admit that FLDS are Mormon. Personally, I think the Mormons should be proud of their differences. They should not try to use the name "Christian" to gain credibility.

Scott

Posted: October 03, 2007 1:04 PM

In the final anaylsis, whose job is it to judge who is a Christian and who is not. I have had evangelical friends tell me that Catholic's are not Christian and visa versa. I have lived among the Mormons for most of my life. In my view, they are definately Christian. Not only in words but in deeds. Mitt Romney has lived a life devoted to his family and his faith. He has demonstrated by his fruits that Christ is a major part of his life. I would be proud to have him as our president.

Bot	Posted: October 03, 2007 5:53 AM

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This article http://mormonsarechristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity's comprehension of baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.” The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres more closely to First Century Christianity than any other denomination. Perhaps the reason the pastors denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is to protect their flock (and their livelihood).

Eichendorff

Posted: October 02, 2007 7:14 PM

I am a Christian. I believe in Christ. He is my Savior and I look to Him and to Him only for salvation. Jesus Christ knows that I follow Him. I thank Him every day of my life that I have the privilege of being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I also thank Him every day that I am not like Paul. No one can tell me I'm not a Christian. I do not lie about my belief in Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible lie for anyone to say I am not a Christian. I know who I am and I know what I believe.

Harry R.

Posted: October 02, 2007 4:46 PM

Romney talked about doctrinal differences? He said they exist, but didn't explain. LDS Godhead-3 Gods, Father has wife, men can become Gods, all Christian creeds abomination/professors of the creeds corrupt, works & faith salvation, etc. LDS Church is not open about all doctrines. Mormon.org only included an OK reference to the Father an exalted man around the time of the PBS special, & uses cloaked terms for God having a body & godhood that would keep uninformed unaware of true doctrine. Robert Millet in a talk to prepare LDS for missions (YouTube:Lying for the Lord):answer people w/what they should have asked, not a straight answer, Apostle Packer told LDS to bear testimony to others even if U don't have one, it will help get one (deception/lying to others/emotional conditioning) in The Candle of the Lord speech to mission pres's (official Ensign 1/83, & official LDS.org archives). This does not help in trusting a faithful member who has held a number of LDS offices.

CSR	Posted: October 02, 2007 4:39 PM


Thanks Paul for stating the facts. I just read all the posts from begging to recent and Paul is the only one who has his act together. I'm so sick of all the mud slinging, name calling (yes, even from the evengelicals). It's refresshing to see someine just state the facts and make a legitimate point. Preach on Paul!

Paul	Posted: October 02, 2007 2:57 PM

Ok, so don't deal with the facts of what the Mormon church itself has stated -- just repeat "bigot" over and over. Folks, the quotes are direct from the Mormons themselves, a fact that he has not disputed. The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints has been properly labeled a cult...there is NOTHING Christian about Mormonism...nothing...only the terminology. Jesus to them -- is different than Jesus to us. Jesus was created, according to their beliefs; Jesus is God, according to Christianity. If you want to get right down to it, Mormons believe there is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.). Actually, Scripture is clear that one must believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ -- that "name" is everything about Him (deity etc). To reject Jesus is God, is to reject the God of Christianity. Mormonism does just that...it is anti-Christian in the fullest sense.

Eichendorrf

Posted: October 02, 2007 1:27 PM

The difference between me and Paul is that Paul attacks and trashes someone else's religion. I don't. My purpose is simply to state what I believe and what I know to be true. Paul will cite professional bigots all day long and still be wrong. Since this comment board is not a suitable place for lengthy discussions, I'll recommend some sites that are not run by bigots, but rather by those who know what they're talking about as far as LDS doctrine is concerned. The official web sites of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are lds.org and mormon.org. There you will find the truth of LDS beliefs. In addition, you can visit fairlds.org, which is not an official web site of the Church, but it has reliable information. All the questions ever put to the Church, even those from bigots like Paul, are answered there. It has a topical guide that you can use to get to the question you want answered. Remember the injunction in the Bible against lying. Stay away from liars like Paul.

Paul	Posted: October 02, 2007 1:11 PM

I see Eichendorff didn't deal with the facts of the quotes I provided. Why? Because they are from the Mormons themselves -- not opinions from those outside their "faith". We must understand he is more upset with those facts being exposed. Here are a couple others: (From Latter-Day Saints Dictionary p697), "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold of eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts". In Article of Faith, p92, it states that good works are necessary for salvation. Yet, Scripture states in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." As you can see, Scripture is in direct conflict with Mormonism. The Apostle Paul says in Galatians that if one preaches another gospel than was delivered to us, let him be accursed (Gal 1:8-9). Behind Mormonism's "Christian" terminology is satanic lies and deceit.

John	Posted: October 02, 2007 12:27 PM

If you are a conservative, can you honestly look in the mirror and say that the ends justify the means in voting for Romney? Isn't it pandering to popular opinion or happenstance in having the moral high ground when his "faith" is grounded in non-Biblical nonsense? I said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather vote for a Wiccan than someone who claims to be from the 'Church' of 'Jesus Christ' of Latter Day 'Saints.'

Eichendorff

Posted: October 02, 2007 12:01 PM

Paul, and others like him, use the same contemptible tactics that Media Matters has used against Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh: lies, half-truths and distortions. They are all bankrupt of any integrity whatever, and especially bankrupt of any semblance of true Christianity. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not hide behind anything. They are Christians. They know they are Christians and God knows they are Christians. One day, people like Paul will stand before God at the bar of judgment and will have to give an accounting of the lies, half-truths, and distortions they used against their fellow human beings. All of us are accountable for our misdeeds, but lying is one of the worst. Professional bigots lie again and again. They shouldn't look forward to the day of judgment.

Paul	Posted: October 02, 2007 10:57 AM

The fact is, Eichendorff, Mormonism is anti-Christian. Yes, you all hide behind "Christian" terminology, but the doctrine is straight from hell. From those who want to learn more, you can go to this website: http://www.carm.org/lds/nutshell.htm or the main page at http://www.carm.org/mormon.htm. Yes, they believe in "a god", but not the God of the Bible -- and unfortunately Eichendorff, Mormons are no more Christians than those who follow Islam. It's interesting he states the "Bible as true" - yet, the History of the Church 4:461 states the "Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible." Or, how about Jesus? The Mormon Doctrine, p163 and Gospel through the Ages, p15 states that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to both of them. Here's one of my favorites - If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation (Mormon Doctrine, p670). No, your god and our God are different. Jesus is God -- not a created being.

Eichendorff

Posted: October 02, 2007 7:32 AM

You really have to wonder where Paul gets his information on Mormonism. Certainly not from Latter-day Saints themselves. Since I am an active Latter-day Saint and have been all my life, let me set the record straight. There is no group of people on the face of the earth who have a greater faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the Savior of the World, in His atoning sacrifice, in the resurrection, than members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When Paul says Mormonism is anti-Biblical, he really means ant-Paul's-interpretation-of-the-Bible. The Bible, specifically the King James version, is part of the LDS scriptural canon. We accept the characters, events, teachings, and principles contained in the Bible as true. There is no objective test for Christianity one could possibly devise from the New Testament alone that Latter-day Saints cannot pass with flying colors. Latter-day Saints are true Christians. Period.

Paul	Posted: October 01, 2007 10:03 PM

Romeny states in the article, "While the doctrines of my church are quite different from evangelical Christian doctrines, the values of our faiths are very much the same." Translation: 1. Mormonism is anti-biblical (i.e., our doctrines / teachings of Mormonism are different from Christian doctrines). 2. Ethically, we agree. Actually, is that true? As Christians, we strive to be holy, for He is holy -- our values are based on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Since Mormonism rejects the Lord Jesus Christ, how can we have the same values? Regardless of whether Romney will admit it or not, his Mormonism beliefs will, in fact, play a role in his policy...just as Christianity played a prominent role in the founding fathers of this country. We must always remember...at the end of the day, he is anti-Lord Jesus Christ.

Eichendorff

Posted: September 29, 2007 11:15 PM

To John Howard: I've been an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all my life, I've served as a full-time missionary and as a bishop and I've never heard of a prophecy of transfiguration. Where did you make that one up? To Kevin Stilley: Mormonism doesn't need a Romney presidency to be legitimate. The only legitimacy the Church cares about or needs comes from God, and the Church received that the instant it came into existence.

Kevin Stilley

Posted: September 29, 2007 10:00 PM


Now that you have offered all these softball questions to Romney, how about a good Q & A with someone who believes that a Romney presidency would both legitimize Mormonism and create such misunderstanding among the ill inormed as to compromise the gospel. Or, does CT just do puff pieces for the candidates it likes?

John Howard (eggandsperm.org)

Posted: September 29, 2007 1:53 PM

One doctrinal difference that would lead to very different policy is the Mormon prophecy of "Transfiguration". In most Christian religions, transfiguration refers to an event that happened to Jesus witnessed by the Apostles. In Mormonism, it is something that happens to mortals. "Transfiguration bestows on individuals a temporary condition compatible to that of deity and allows them to see God face-to-face." Apparently this is one of many prophecies specific to Mormonism that line up very well with the entirely secular policy-motivated group of people known as "Transhumanists." Transhumanists push for full steam ahead, federally funded genetic engineering. Would Romney agree with the Mormon Transhumanist Association? The policy implication is obvious - would Romney support genetic engineering of human beings and other Transhumanist goals, or would he support an Egg and Sperm law to preserve natural conception and stop cloning?

Eichendorff

Posted: September 28, 2007 8:21 AM


Zarry claims that Mormonism has been proven false. That is a load of pure nonsense. Nothing of the kind has ever taken place. In fact, Mormonism has greater support, strength, membership, and vitality now than ever before. One day, on the subject of Mormonism, people like Zarry will have both their feet firmly ensconced in their big mouths.

Zarry

Posted: September 28, 2007 7:13 AM

Jules, thank you for the response to my comments. I believe your response misses a critical point: Mormonism can be proven false, beyond reasonable doubt. The Messiahship of Jesus Christ can be taken on faith, and it is supported by facts, but it is a matter of faith. On the other hand, one can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mormonism is false. It is not a matter of faith. It is a matter of investigation and facts. See, e.g., www.bookofabraham.info I do not apply a religious test to the presidency, but I do apply a judgment test. If a person can be duped by a fringe religion (Raelians for example) or a religion that has been proven false (Mormonism), then that person lacks the judgment for the oval office. Again, this is a judgment test. There is much more detail to the reasons why Mormonism has been literally proven false, but those details are beyond the scope of this response. Most would not vote for a Raelian - not out of religious bigotry, but based on judgment.

www.evangelicalsformitt.org

Posted: September 27, 2007 11:44 PM


www.evangelicalsformitt.org

Jules

Posted: September 27, 2007 8:33 PM

Romney is qualified by his skills, experience, values and integrity to serve as President. I wouldn't hesitate to cast my vote his way. May I also comment on Zarry's remarks? As a Christian, how can Zarry be okay with a Jew who has been "fooled" by the notion that Jesus of Nazareth was not the Messiah, but not be okay with someone, like Romney, who believes that He was? Zarry may find Joseph Smith's story hard to believe, but does he really find the Jewish position on Christ to be so much more palatable or intellectually rational? I agree with Romney that values are far more important than doctrines when it comes to who occupies the White House. To suggest, as Zarry has, that one's commitment to, and belief in, a respected faith, is somehow a reasonable indication of a serious intellectual deficit, serves only to promote religious bigotry and is not helpful in this debate.

sloagm

Posted: September 27, 2007 3:07 PM

Romney would be a fantastic president. I believe that he recognizes that the nation is highly prejudicial relative to his mormon faith, and as a result he is trying a bit too hard to garner the evangelical and conservative vote. He does have very strong conservative credentials in the context of a federalist system. What is difficult to understand about his views are that he is personally very conservative, but is also very cognizant of the freedom of individuals to choose, which is why at one point he was pro-choice (even though as an ecclesiastical leader he counseled members of his church strongly against participating, funding, or supporting abortion). He sides with conservative causes when facing issues upon which the moral fabric of the nation rests (same sex marriage, abortion, embryonic cloning)...at least that is what he did as a public servant.

Richard Grasser

Posted: September 27, 2007 7:11 AM


I believe that family values in the christian churches, became the measure of the church in america in the fifties, and has survived the test of time generationally, through the power of Jesus Christ.

H. D. Schmidt

Posted: September 27, 2007 4:28 AM

The more I hear and read the more convinced I become that America has totally forsaken its heritage. If America is not now an Empire, than I ask, what is an Empire anyway? The presidential aspirants as they speak, there is actually only one that makes any sense to me in as much as he truly speaks the language of the Founding Fathers. That man is none other than Mr. Paul in the Republican side. As to Mr. Romney, he is an Imperialist, and so are most of the Republicans. Imperialism is now the terminal cancer of America. Yet, America blames the whole world for all her ills, even the ills in the homeland. Borders, once sacred now they basically do not exist and the same as to the laws of immigration. Yet, America's ever more horrendous war machinery circling the globe. These words come handy: "Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to Republican liberty". By George Washington.

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