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Christianity Today, October, 2007 |

Gutsy Guilt

Don't let shame over sexual sin destroy you.

John Piper | posted 10/19/2007 08:27AM

The closest I have ever come in 26 years to being fired from my position as a pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church was in the mid-1980s, when I wrote an article for our church newsletter titled "Missions ...

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CatholicChic

Posted: October 31, 2007 12:45 PM


I'd like to highly recommend John Paul II"s work "The Theology of the Body, Human Love in the Divine Plan" for consideration in contemplating a holy sexuality.

JP	Posted: October 29, 2007 3:22 PM

Masturbation is a sin. It's definitely an addiction and it ruined my relationship with God not once. The way out is to fight against the thoughts that lead you to it and to forbid the spirit of lust. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get rid of it. Not until I realized I had the power to rebuke the spirits that provoked me to sin in Jesus' name. That really helped!!! Together with other precautions, of course.

Jim	Posted: October 28, 2007 2:30 PM


A novel approach, but he makes the Devil seem more real than God.

Pritch

Posted: October 26, 2007 2:10 PM

Leroy: Strong insults man. Wanna calm down and discuss this rationally? Or do you just want to take it outside? *rolleyes* I guess the issue seemed eminently obvious, and so didn't think an indepth word study was needed. Fornication is a well know term with an obvious meaning. It pretty much points to any sexual activity outside marriage. Everything in the Bible points to God's idea of sex being of a limited(but fun as heck ;-) ) scope. God's idea, not mine. But heck. For the fun of it, here's your "exegetical" word study. Again, from 1Cor6. Fornication, strongs #4202. Greek word, "porneia". Outline of biblical usage, "illicit sexual intercourse, including, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc." "fornication: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" -Marian Webster. How much more do you need man? I mean, do you seriously think God did not intend sex for the confines of marriage? Cause you'd be like the first.

Leroy

Posted: October 26, 2007 12:29 PM

Pritch- Your most recent post is the most ridiculous to date. I simply cannot believe that this is how you (or anyone) thinks you are supposed to do exegesis (or as you call it Bible study) or that you would display your extreme naivety for the world to witness. Wouldn’t it make a whole lot more sense if you were to find out what the original author of the biblical text meant when he used a particular word within the context in which he used such word, rather than how someone say 2000 years later uses such word? To do this, you are going to need a bit more than dictionary.com. At least now I understand completely how you have come up with your interpretation of the biblical text and think the Bible says all sorts of things it simply does not say. When I don't know something, I tend to keep my mouth shut, rather than to display my ignorance. And when someone persuades me I am wrong, I change my mind. I'd ask you what you do, but I already know the answer! Nuff Said!

gINA	Posted: October 26, 2007 11:21 AM

Guilt is what kept me from coming back to God's love for a long time. when you are so down on yourself about what you have done, you give up even trying to get right. but Pritch is right i think about masturbation. i dont think it's wrong on it's own. but instead the lusting that typically accompanies it is. Tony, you made some comments that i have to address, you say it is not biblical to confess to a priest. we ARE biblically commanded to confess our sins to one another, doing this is healthy and helps keep us from falling again. in the early church they did public confessions, as time went on they allowed for confessing to a trusted friend, and then it changed to clergy only. so yes, it's a bit different from the original way, but it isnt wrong. and the priest doesnt exactly absolve you of sins (I'm not catholic, BTW< but i do have a strong interest there) but rather assures you of your absolution, reminds you that GOD is forgiving. penace is given to deter from sinning again.

Kris	Posted: October 26, 2007 2:17 AM


Hi, What an amazing Lord we have! God meets our needs in time. Reading this article is one example.

Pritch

Posted: October 26, 2007 12:00 AM

You know what? Let's drop the bull. In addition to the mountain of scripture that is against your insane position (a position I might add that can only serve to justify your own sin), let's talk about the first and second greatest commandments. "Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself". You can pretty much pile whatever else God ever said to, or not to do into this. If it is loving, do it, if it is not, don't. Period. And so I will ask you again. How is it loving to be sexual with a woman I have not made a lifetime commitment to? Giving that of one's self is the most vulnerable, most intimate expression of life. If I take that from a woman, without giving her the assurance of marriage that I am not going to just walk away tomorrow, I am at that point decidedly not acting out of love, and acting only out of my own sexual self interest. Let's stop talking exegesis, and start talking common sense. If you live that way, you are in sin.

Linda

Posted: October 25, 2007 6:16 PM

Beautiful....grace/faith not condemnation. It does not direct me to believe that I ,or anyone of us can or should sin with recckless abandon. What it reminds us of...is that we are not without salvation unless we subscribe to self or other humans condemnation. OUR Father is a reader of hearts. The inteeligent Creator who is alone able to discern the thoughts and the INTENTIONS of all our hearts. Bless your sweet heart......especially you young 'lambs' do not despise yourselves, your debt was paid by the 'lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world'....

L1001L

Posted: October 25, 2007 5:51 PM


This is a very helpful and insightful article.

Pritch

Posted: October 25, 2007 2:35 PM

You know, at first I was stumped, because I'm thinking, the Bible never really does say that sex outside marriage is wrong. The word that was coming to mind was "fornication". But, I did my Bible searches and wasn't coming up with that word in the NIV. In the NIV, it's referred to as "sexual immorality". But then I realized that there are other translations. And in those, such as the NAS and the KJV, fornication appears dozens of times, all in reference to sexual sin and something to be avoided. The definition, according to Dictionary.com, of fornication is: "voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other" I'm such a dolt. My bad. And you need to rethink things a bit I'd say. The Bible never says it word for word because it assumes you would know what "fornication" meant. 1 Cor 6:18 "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." KJV

Leroy

Posted: October 25, 2007 1:14 PM

Pritch: 1st - I couldn't care less if you do/don't respond further. I never invited your initial response. 2nd - it's interesting that you assume that I'm trying to justify some sin. Where did I say that I was doing x, y or y which could be characterized as sin? Attacking another person's character or motivation, rather than his argument is what you do when your argument is so weak that is all you can do. By doing so you are simply proving my point for me. 3rd - to date you have failed to support your position, even with the Hebrews passage, which does not say what you want it to say or think it should say. 4th - I find it amusing when people need to clarify what God really meant, when if that is what he meant, he certainly would have said so. The Bible is full of clear prohibitions, such as don't lie, don't gossip, don't judge, all of which are said in a straight forward, non-ambiguious way that does not require anyone to read God's mind or to read between the lines, etc.

Pritch

Posted: October 25, 2007 12:45 PM

Rick: I think I'd agree with you on some levels. The Bible never specifically says that masturbation is wrong. Many Christians would agree, especially for a young Christian, that masturbation is not wrong. The problem I see with that is that MOST men cannot masturbate without lusting through fantasy or pornography. You might, but most cannot. That is were it becomes dangerous, not just from the perspective of sin, but from the perspective of, how real are those fantasy/porn girls? And will the woman you ultimately marry look/act like that? Cause if she doesn't, and she likely won't, you have conditioned your sexuality to expect that and you will have major problems not going back to porn/fantasy. If a man is going to masturbate, he needs some pretty strict fenses around it, and if he's married, it's just not a good idea at all. Which raises the question, why is it that men feel they cannot go without sex? Our manhood should be based on SOOOO much more than that.

Rick Kenahan

Posted: October 25, 2007 12:09 PM

Could it be that some of the people Piper is referring to in the article that are "wasting their life" because of guilt, might be feeling guilty about something that they shouldn't be feeling guilty about in the first place? If Piper has preached to young people, who were excited about their relationship with Christ, that they were sinning by masturbating, is this really God's view on the subject? I don't think it is and I believe that Piper forced his own opinion and a heavy yoke on young Christians that could have easily created a stumbling block for them to continue to grow in their faith. Masturbation doesn't have to be accompanied by lust. Piper lumps masturbation in with fornication and pornography. It's clear from the bible that fornication and pornography are wrong, but to my knowledge, masturbation isn't referenced in the bible and there are reasons God chose that. Telling young Christians that masturbation is wrong, is a great way to create havoc in their spirituality.

Patrick Gann

Posted: October 24, 2007 4:31 PM

Great article! I'd like to put in my 2 cents on the comments others have made. As is to be expected, the topic became derailed into a "porn and masturbation - sin? Yes or no" debate. And for those in favor of saying "no it's not a sin," they are OH so eager to blame the church, Augustine, the Victorian era, etc. for giving us an unhealthy view of sexuality. But MY personal experience says otherwise ... see, I was raised in a fairly moderate/liberal Christian home. I was taught all the feel-good things about sex (though I was also told that premarital sex was a sin). My parents, youth pastors, everyone told me masturbation was a-okay. But I wouldn't accept it. I, of my own volition, and without the persuasion (direct or indirect) of those around me, determined that it was wrong. Explain that however you wish: all I ask is that you stop using the church as the scapegoat when it comes to Christianity and sexuality. In my life, it would seem your argument is WAY off the mark.

Pritch

Posted: October 24, 2007 11:47 AM

Leroy: Couple things. First, I think your position is UNSUPPORTABLE by scripture. Period. Second, I do not think sex is in any way shape or form dirty. I simply think God designed and intended it for a rather specific set of circumstances. Once INSIDE those circumstances, have fun. Heck, having sex with my wife is one of life’s greatest joys. Third, I think a position like your’s is taken when someone simply does not want to obey God. And so you look for ways to justify your sin. Hebrews 10:26-29 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. .... How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" This will be my last response to you.

Leroy

Posted: October 24, 2007 8:22 AM

Pritch: You are hung up about sex, aren't you? What do you make of all the great men of God in the OT who had multiple wives, concubines, etc. If God was as concerned about sexual sin as you seem to think he is, why weren't they disqualified, condemned, etc.? Have the rules changed? Since Augustine, the church has treated sex as something dirty to be done over in a corner for the sole purpose of reproduction. You don't seem to understand that God designed us to enjoy our bodies, to embrace our material lives and to have sex. If the church did not treat sex like something dirty, masturbation as a sin, etc. Christians would have much healthier attitudes about sex, and Satan, the media, would have a more difficult time using sex to manipulate us. Moralists are simply self righteous folks who are afraid that someone might be having some fun, who are secretly envious of the very people and behavior they condemn. Read Matt's comments. He is 100% right!

Pritch

Posted: October 23, 2007 2:56 PM

Jesus said that the law and the prophets can be summed up by this. "Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself." To say that the Bible never says I shouldn't have sex with someone unless I'm married to them is so far removed from anythign even remotely close to what God intended, I have a hard time addressing it with a straight face. How is it loving your neighbor as yourself to have sex with her, when you do not plan on making a lifetime commitment to her? And further, if you do plan on marrying her, do you have so little self control that you cannot wait the weeks and months to be sexual with her that you must do it now? Women are emotionally damaged when a man has sex with them, but does not value them enough to only do so within the protection of marriage. That is not love. So, do you love that woman you are having sex with? Your actions say you do not if you haven't married her. Oh, you might be sexually attracted to her, but that is not love. Not even close.

Pritch

Posted: October 23, 2007 1:39 PM

Leroy: The Bible talks for pages and pages and pages about sexual immorality being sin. So my question to you is, how do you define that? What would a society look like where there were no boundaries on who you should and should not be sexual with? Oh wait, we live in that society. Illigitimate children born all over the place, divorce more common than hamburgers. And if it's OT scripture you want, here one. Malachi 2:15 "Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth." You seem to come from some religious paradigm where sex has no value, where it's just, no big deal and I can have it with whomever I choose, and especially if I'm not married to them. That is not how God designed sex. Your position removes any and all value from it, and exposes the parties involved to untold emotional, spiritual and physical damage.

Pritch

Posted: October 23, 2007 12:56 PM

Glenn: I also work with sex addicts. I lead a 12 step group helping sex addict OUT of their addictions. I know all about the solution to this problem being MORE related to treating the WHYS and HOWS than just the behavior. The problem that I see with this article is in a statement made by Piper. Quoted: "The great tragedy is not masturbation or fornication or pornography." Now. Can the guilt Piper is talking about result in someone truly not fulfilling their God given call? In my opinion, it's a shadow when compared to the actual sin. Which prevented Ted Haggard from fulfilling his call more? His guilt over his sin? Or the fact that his sin was plastered on CNN.com? To say that the sin is not the great tragedy is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. In my own dealings with sex addicts (being one myself), the sin of these men destroys, utterly and beyond repair, the lives of the people around them. And I will argue to the death the idea that the guilt is the "great tragedy".

Leroy

Posted: October 23, 2007 12:23 PM

Pritch - 1st - that you don't know the difference between masturbation and ejaculation withdraw (Onan's sin) pretty much speaks to your exegetical capacity. 2nd - that you think that the Bible (when what you mean is the NT since the OT is certainly not clear about this, think Moses, David, Solomon, et al) is clear about sex outside of marriage and the best verse you can come up with is Hebrews 13:4 (a book many thought did not belong in the cannon at all), pretty much sums up just how weak your argument is. As I have said, if God wanted to make the point crystal clear, he could have and he would have. 3rd - that fact that you really think that its not possible to masturbate without looking at porn or fantasizing says more about you (see 4th) than its says about reality. 4th - I'd pretty much conclude (sadly) that you obviously have a fairly serious problem with masturbation to be so concerned about it, and so sure that it can only be done in the manner you describe.

Glenn

Posted: October 23, 2007 12:16 PM

I am involved in ministering to porn addicts (like myself), and like Piper I constantly tell these men that porn isn't the problem itself, it is a symptom of the problem. Yes, the existence of porn is a problem in itself, but men choose porn over real relationships for a wide variety of reasons - reasons that seem sensible at the time. Only after real tragedy strikes do these men look back (as I did) and realize that their reasoning was horribly warped. Satan works on the mind to warp loneliness into a desire for sexual fulfillment as a substitute for real love - especially the love of God - and then Satan goes a step further and warps our guilt over our sexual failures into shame and feelings of unworthiness. Men forget that God already thinks them worthy enough for His Son to die for them. Piper is telling us to remember that, to leave behind Satan's lies and shame, and, knowing we are justified in Christ, to pursue lives of righteousness.

Dayo	Posted: October 23, 2007 11:52 AM


Really grateful forPlper's article. As one who has had to struggle to victory after sexual sin I am glad that the verses and principles have been my staying power against all the accusations of Satan. I have also found the plctures of forgiveness in the OT also quite helpful especially Mic.7.19 and Is,44.22-23; 38.17. I have printed out the article for sharing with young and old in my church.

Pritch

Posted: October 23, 2007 11:19 AM

From John 8:10-11 "Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 'No one, sir,' she said. 'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'" Jesus is BOTH the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and the lamb that was slain. He simultaneously forgives past sin and does not condemn us for it AND asks us to walk a different path. So I fully support the idea that the we no longer have to be bound by guilt to our past. But, the author here does a severe diservice by not presenting the other side of the coin. Jesus does ask us to leave our life of sin. The weight of scripture, both old and new, tell us that we have a responsability to obey our Lord. If you are having problems with that, you need to find out why so that you can change. Sexual sin in particular is so destructive. It can literally cause God to turn AWAY from any offering you make to him. Read. Malachi 2:13,14.

Ephrem Hagos

Posted: October 23, 2007 4:45 AM

Here is some food for thought. Jesus Christ had more promising things to say about those who live in sexual sin (Luke 7: 36-50; John 4; 8: 1-11) than about those who do not know who He is (John 8: 23-24). Where we should put the weight in our system of Christian values is clear. There is only one fatal sin and that is not at all of the sexual type! Christian leaders are going to pay dearly for the reason why there is little or nothing in Christian literature on the subject of "How one can know first-hand and personally who Jesus is?" This is the central theme of the Gospel developed fully when Jesus died on the cross. The answer given in the teaching of Jesus is not "by faith". Although answered a long time ago, the question is still crying out unheeded!

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