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Christianity Today, December, 2007 |

GOOD QUESTION

Hour of Decision

"How can I know I'm a Christian if I can't remember when I first responded to the gospel?"

Erik Thoennes | posted 12/26/2007 08:56AM

My favorite question to ask Christians is how they came to trust in Christ. The answers I've heard testify to the diverse experiences God uses to bring people into a relationship with himself. Most commonly, ...

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Lutheran Chick

Posted: January 03, 2008 12:32 PM

It's a good thing God saves us - through Jesus Christ - and not our own doing or the doing of the church. Otherwise, a whole bunch of people (including most of the people in this blog) would not know what their final destination is! God saved me on the cross. God claimed me at my infant baptism. God continues to lead me throughout my life and every week I stand in church and confess my sins and, once again hear the good news: Through Jesus Christ my sins are forgiven. Thank God for his grace!

Russell Phillips

Posted: January 02, 2008 11:24 PM

"The true test of the authentic work of God in one's life is growth in Christ-like character, increased love for God and other people, and the fruit of the Spirit... the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in making a person more like Jesus is the clearest indicator that one has been made a new creation in Christ." While I think this article makes some helpful points and identifies weaknesses in some traditional approaches to the issue of assurance ("How do I know that I am in Christ?"), for me it fails to provide a plausible answer to the question posed. I cannot see how self-appraisal along the lines of how much the Holy Spirit has produced fruit in my life could be a source of confidence or assurance, even in the most saintly of Christians. Surely it is the nature of faith to look away from oneself and to God in Christ. And the particular focus of faith is on the specific and objective promises of God given in his Word preached ("your sins are forgiven").

GeneMBridges

Posted: December 31, 2007 5:10 PM

Cabbybear, the reason that many folks can't remember when they were converted is simply because it was a seamless transition. Ruth Graham is a classic example. The Bible contains no "sinner's prayer," and it provides no model qua model for a conversion experience. What is does do is command persons to repent of their sins and trust in Christ alone. If a person has done that their life will show it. Regeneration is not brought about by a decision. Rather, Scripture says we believe because we are born again (I John 5:1). The point of John 3:3-8 is that the new birth is a result of the mysterious work of the Spirit moving, the way the rustling of leaves is the result of the wind's motion. It is a miracle wrought by God not the will of man and via the instrument of the word of God. Conversion is the inevitable and quick result. Saving faith is in Christ alone but never unaccompanied by fruit of the Spirit, etc., and that is where the Bible tells us to look to examine our calling.

Howard Pepper

Posted: December 31, 2007 12:28 PM

People like me - more numerous than most realize - present great difficulties for ALL concepts of salvation as regeneration by God's action, necessary for access to God and heaven. I had a conversion experience at 6, with the common personalization, confirmation of that when my understanding matured in my mid teens. I then went to Biola University ('72), Talbot School of Theology (M.Div., '76) and Biola again (MFCC, '78). I did Christian counseling, church ministry, apologetics, all with clear assurance of salvation, strong love of God, worship, evangelism, and "growth in Christ" (per feedback from other believers). Yet, in my continued deep exploration of the Bible, growth processes, and careful observations of life, history, etc., I came to realize that the Bible is a record of human religious concepts. I no longer can find good evidence for claims of "revealed" knowledge or for core Christian doctrines. Yet my growth in love and "Christ-likeness" continues, and my joy, etc.

Brian

Posted: December 31, 2007 11:12 AM

"...That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." -Romans 10:9-10 I don't know if it could be any clearer than that, and I don't see why it should matter if the belief and the accompanying confession happened yesterday or today, but I think what matters is that they have happened. It would of course be a work of the Holy Spirit for those things to occur, so as I see it, it appears impossible to both believe and confess without it being an act of God having saved you. I guess the bigger question is that if you subsequently "unbelieve" would your salvation somehow be at risk, and I assume that since it was an act of God to begin with, it would be difficult to imagine you could somehow lose it, but I suppose that would be for a different article...

clyde

Posted: December 31, 2007 4:05 AM


john17 this is eternal life that you might know the father.

ChuckRockjr

Posted: December 31, 2007 3:05 AM

I agree with Bob, the explanation in the article clearly conflicts with scripture and the convictions of the early christians (Justin Matyr, tertulain, etc). In my reading of scripture it seems clear that faith, confession, and repentance are all required, however, forgiveness takes place at baptism. We will continue to grow in our faith, confession and repentance after baptism, but evidence of these must have manifested prior to baptism for us to have accepted God's offer of salvation on his terms, as opposed to our own. I have a degree in business and have been a christian for 12 years (reborn 3-19-95), and have led small group bible discussions in my home. I have to confess that I am regularly confounded by the teaching of those who have degrees in theology.

Paul	Posted: December 29, 2007 10:57 AM

I apt to agree more with Monte. Just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't really say much. I can say that I belive in aliens but who really cares and what does that change? Having a relatioship with God is not a mental activity. It's more of a matter of the heart and experience. And eternal life? Why do people interpret this as a linear extension of endless time? Eternal, according to the original vernacular actually means something beyond time, and beyond space. It represents more of a condition of being than a period of time. Specifically a condition of being in which we possess an unbreakable connection with God in which the spirit of God is beautifully interwoven with human heart.

Cheryl

Posted: December 29, 2007 10:54 AM


After reading all the posts and the very different views, I wonder if some would believe in death bed decisions for Christ since this would not allow time for the fruits of the spirit to prove salvation. What about the thief that was crucified with Jesus?

Susan B

Posted: December 28, 2007 12:42 PM

Ann, I'm sorry it took so lokng to hear the GIFT-ness of our salvation preached. Our salvation doesn't depend on raising a hand or praying a prayer! Thanks be to our gracious God that it depends solely on God's work through Christ. We don't need to remember a conversion experience--we need to look to the cross and if asked "When were you saved?" recall that it was a Friday afternoon, around the feast of the Passover, some 2000 years ago.

CabbyDear

Posted: December 28, 2007 12:37 PM

Salvation is the result of being "born again." In John 3:3 Jesus stated -"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." To be "born again" is to be "born from above" according to the Greek .To be able to "see" the kingdom is to "discern clearly, to perceive, to experience." When someone accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that person will have a life-changing experience where, whether gradually or suddenly, they connect personally with Jesus and become aware of the reality of His heavenly kingdom. It has nothing to do with a mental agreement that God or Jesus are real and that the bible is true. It's a tangible change that allows to you to say to yourself that you will never be the same since the Holy Spirit of God invaded your life and you were spiritually birthed a child of the living God. If you cannot remember the day you made a decision for Christ, where was your heart at when you invited Jesus to come in to your life?

Alan Paul

Posted: December 28, 2007 12:28 PM

Ann W. I refer you back to Monte's email. There must be a time when you accept Jesus as your Lord. Jesus does all the work, but you must as Romans 10: 9-10 says: ...confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. It seems like you are saying everyone is already saved - that need not acknowledge it - that Christ does all of the work and we do not have to respond. If you are indeed saying that, then you are mistaken and I implore you to take another look at your standing before God.

F McDonald

Posted: December 28, 2007 8:40 AM

Experience is everything. ie Experiencing salvation. Not working it out ... yet working it out. The best part of the authors submission is indeed the following, < Salvation in the Bible thus has past, present, and future tenses. A believer has been saved from the guilt of sin (justification, see Eph. 2:8), is being saved from the power of sin (sanctification, see 1 Cor. 1:18), and will be saved from the judgment and presence of sin (glorification, see Acts 15:11).> The comments by others show how so many get it wrong.. only because of the diversity of opinions. Belief cannot be seperated from action where God is concerned. Only man tries hard to seperate them in order to justify another means of salvation. If scripture states 'believe and be baptised to be saved' and scripture states, as it does, that baptism saves, then scripture speaks about a different water baptism than many have conjured by their own means.Today man has distorted conversion experience.

Pastor Kevin Beadle [Australia]

Posted: December 28, 2007 8:28 AM

My life had a time of God's steering where at the age of 7, I had several visions of Him and the messenger He sent to me, but I still did not know Him until the age of 32 where He challenged me. His challenge was so strong I seriously sought God whoever He was for I was not yet convinced Jesus was God. The conversion I had was something I will never forget. I found myself weeping my way into the kingdom of God knowing I was a sinner and Jesus was my Saviour. Suddenly there was a great roar in the heavenlies and before my eyes [it was night time] I saw a blazing light in the sky and almost as quickly I saw Millions of angels surrounding the throne of God where I can remember one who was seated and another who was standing. Both were delighted as I wept my way into the kingdom of God. Why God chose me to witness what happens at ones salvation I don't know. Salvation is a definite time of renewal. It changes you dramatically. You are like a blind man who can suddenly see.

Robert

Posted: December 28, 2007 8:09 AM

Monte - Respectfully or not you are unfortunately mistaken. The biblical text is 100% clear that if you believe in Jesus you will have eternal life. You may add what you would like to this. You may redefine belief and faith to mean obedience, baptism or whatever you would like, but you are unfortunately adding to the straight forward and quite unambiguous requirement set forth by God in his word, ie, belief in Jesus that he died for your sins and that he rose again, bodily resurrection, demonstrating that he was Israel's Messiah and savior of all people who believe in him. End of story. I do not understand why any one wants to make what God quite clearly made very straight forward has made quite simply, complicated and difficult, but this is where most of what passes as Christianity has devolved into religion, ie, a man made system, most which tell us what we must do for God, when the Christian faith is 100% about what God has done for us, and in the person of Jesus.

ann w

Posted: December 27, 2007 8:27 PM

This is a very important issue and I'm glad it is being discussed. I was led for 40 years to believe that all I had to do to be saved was pray a prayer to "ask Jesus into my heart" or "ask Jesus into my life" which is not in the bible. I never actually knew what was in the bible, just what I had heard from church, tv or second hand from others. The Holy Spirit through a bible teacher on tv showed me what the bible really says about it and it is nothing like what I had heard before. It said that by grace are you saved through and that not of yourself. It is a gift of God. All my sins are already forgiven; past, present AND future. That is the good news of the Gospel. Why did it take 40 years of my 43 years to hear that! Salvation comes by believing the gospel. THATS IT. None of our works are involved. He did it all. Why is this not preached today! You believe it and when you do, the Holy Spirit changes your behavior. You can do nothing without it. He is the one that reveals salvation.

James Timerson ... Pastor

Posted: December 27, 2007 7:37 PM

I say a hearty 'amen'! to the last part of this article that emphasizes that ones conversion should not be based on one's past 'decision' but on the present, the 'now' of are you deeper in love with the Lord Jesus today and what are the definite progressive changes in your life ... that is 'moral changes' Do I love and adore the Lord my God more today than I did yesterday? and is that being fleshed out by an increasing love for my fellow man? Even my enemies?

Monte

Posted: December 27, 2007 6:49 PM

I must respectfully disagree with what Robert has written. First of all, "belief" for many people is not New Testament faith. As a pastor, I talk with many people who "believe" in Jesus but refuse to follow him when His word contradicts their lifestyle and yet they vehemently defend their faith in Christ. Second, Jesus teaching in John 3 that we must be born again points to a decisive moment. I like the way the Thoennes put it, that regeneration is at a particular point in time from God's perspective. We just may be completely aware of that moment from a human perspective. Emphasizing a "moment of decision" to the point that it distorts or cheapens faith is what is dangerous. And while I respect The G's desire to be ruled intirely by the NT, there is not one passage of Scripture that teaches baptismal regeneration.

Dr Gary Taylor

Posted: December 27, 2007 1:34 PM

The fruits of the Holy Spirit are faithfulness, generosity, goodness, joy, kindness, love, peace, patience, self-control. It is obvious when these spiritual fruits are applied a person is responding to the Gospel. These spiritual fruits are defined perfectly through the human modeling of Jesus. Consequently it is only in our bonding and intimacy with Jesus that we can begin to imulate these spiritual fruits. Conversion, Being saved, becoming a Christain, Baptism is not just lip service it is a transformation of our being. On many occasions un informed humans exemplify the fruits of the Holy Spirit far more than one who prefesses with mouth that they are Believers. The truest moments of conversion are the moments when a person models, exemplifies puts on actions bearing the fruits of the Spirit. It is within the mystery of these most fully human actions that one is undergoing conversion, fulfilling themselves and has the best opportunity to know Jesus.

Carol Torrence

Posted: December 27, 2007 1:26 PM


I asked God to "show me the Way", expecting Bible verses. after coming forward at BG Crusade. Instead, He showed me via dreams that all came true where my life was headed--even where the stewardess spilled coffee on a man wearing a white jacket on plane trip from Illinois to Texas.

Pastor Dave Poedel, STS

Posted: December 27, 2007 12:05 PM

The moment of my conversion was celebrated in the heavens, and by the good saints at St. Hyacinth Church in Milwaukee. I was born on June 16 and baptized on July 4, and my conversion was complete. In time, I was able to know of my baptism and learned the faith in Christ that saves me. Now, as a Lutheran Pastor, I am delighted to share the regenerating Means of Grace with sinners of all ages and from all backgrounds, that they too may receive the salvation purchased for them by our Savior Jesus Christ on the Cross, and the eternal life promised by the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Praise God from whom all blessings flow!

JEAN	Posted: December 27, 2007 11:11 AM


This description totally resonates with me: looking to Jesus Christ in all things, in joy or sorrow - experiencing Christ regularly in Holy Eucharist, in daily prayer - and sensing the power of the Holy Spirit working THROUGH me in worship, in the challenges of daily life, and in my relations with others.

AW	Posted: December 27, 2007 10:49 AM

I found this article to bring up a touchy issue with grace, although it was argued to not clearly define salvation. I think that we should focus on the final paragraph, "The true test of the authentic work of God in one's life is growth in Christ-like character, increased love for God and other people, and the fruit of the Spirit." We are told in the Word that salvation is made evident by fruit. It is not the fruit that saves, but lack of fruit is a clear sign of a lack of salvation, regardless of when or if you were babptized or said a prayer. A prayer never saves, and it is an unbiblical means to salvation that offers many assurance that never really knew Jesus Christ. The same I will say for baptism, while an important step of obedience, there is no salvation in it as a child or an adult. "love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. That is the true test of salvation.

BILL	Posted: December 27, 2007 10:14 AM

Why be so vague? Why not be specific to scripture? It is written in scripture, God's word, that we must believe in Jesus as our savior. We must confess that Jesus is the Son of God and our messiah. We must repent of our sins and turn back to God. We must be immersed to receive forgiveness of our sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. We can know we are saved and that our responsibility from that point is to serve Christ the King through His Church until He returns to takes us Home. Really pretty simple until we start trying to be smarter than God. It must be God's plan, not ours.

The G

Posted: December 27, 2007 9:45 AM

For 1500 years immersion was the point of salvation according to Acts 2:38; Romans 6; Colossians 2:12; 2 Peter 3:21. It is the place where God does HIS work as He has said and promised. Even Luther defended this. It wasn't until Zwingli came along that this change and Calvinists bought into it. Sprinkling babies is not baptism and can never be by virtual that then meaning of the word immersion, to sink as a ship--with the idea of death. The sinner's prayer is a man made invention --started by Billy Sunday and made popular by Billy Graham, but it's not God's Word. The book of Acts is full of examples where those who wanted to be Christians were immersed. Let's return to God's pattern and end the confusion. Calvinists won't because they believe one has to be regenerated first by God's tyrannical choice. And only then you can believe. They dominate the media.

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