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Christianity Today, February, 2008 |

SPEAKING OUT

Pro-Israel vs. Pro-Palestine

A rabbi hopes for a better conversation.

Rabbi Yehiel Poupko | posted 1/23/2008 08:36AM

A Midwest bible college recently held a program on "Christian Zionism." Two presenters—whom I'll call Professor Jones, a New Testament scholar, and Professor Smith, a Hebrew Bible scholar—discussed ...

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James Turner

Posted: January 29, 2008 3:10 PM

Just because these people control US foreign policy and have lots of money should not blind Christians to the fact that they have done much to make America non-Christian. Furthermore, the Jews of today do not represent the people Israel of the Bible. Some ignorant Christian pastors can be heard describing Sarah, Abraham's wife, as an 'elderly Jewish lady' - the label 'Jew' comes from Judah, and Judah was Sarah's great-grandson. The Jews of today are descended from the Edomites, who according to the historian Josephus, all 'became Jews' around the second century before Christ, and the Khazars, a non-Semitic Turkish people that 90% of modern Jews are descended from, who converted about 740AD. The Jews follow the viciously anti-Christian Talmud, wherein Jesus is condemned to boil in human excrement. Jesus utterly condemned the Jewish leaders of his day, describing them as hypocrits. The Jews in the US want non-racism, but their 'own' country is fundamentally racist.

Dwight

Posted: January 25, 2008 11:35 PM

Pt2. The Temple would be rebuilt and ALL the armies of the world would surround Jerusalem. one can certainly see the current governments of Israel welcome the worlds armies on its doorstep. look at the newly agreed upon UNIFIL on the northern border. the plan for international troops in the west bank (Judea and Samaria for those who need a bit of reference to scripture). The point is ALL govts have been allowed to gain power by God (Rom 13). why? because all eventually work for Good! we cannot see all, as evidenced by ALL of our falling short lives. we want the Jews and their neighbors to live in peace, but we know the WHOLE story! the only REAL peace will come when Jesus returns to set up his kingdom. so though we strive for 'real' peace, should we not do what Genesis 12 tells us? Lets bless Israel and receive God's blessing! this does not mean hating the Palestinians, but love them as well. God will do as He sees fit, let us Love one another, not divide the land and await HIS return!

Dwight

Posted: January 25, 2008 11:16 PM

So many seem to be debating if the Israel they see today represents an image of Israel most would imagine in the regathering to the UNconditional land promised to Abraham. namely a Godly image that ALL would recognize as ordained by God and no one would ever doubt it! We must remember that God as man walked this earth and many did doubt! many could not believe that a poor wood workers son could really be the Messiah that was to be the King of all. In the same light, many do not see that 2,000 years of exile from The Land and still retaining an identity as Jews (Clearly from scripture God's chosen people - though imperfect just like us!) were brought back to the land in 1948 by nothing less than a miracle from God. This leads one to say 'well, where is this miraculous people?', and I agree that to look at Israel I do not see God. But then i look without the worldly view and go to scripture and see that from all 4 corners of the world they will be regathered. end part 1

Christine

Posted: January 25, 2008 6:32 PM

Oh how the dodgy theology of dispensationalism has infected American foreign policy. Israel should be supported because they, like anyone else, have a right to exist, not because of some strange interpretations of scripture. Israelis are human and make mistakes and they have a siege mentality, which causes them to react in certain ways, because since their inception as a state, others have threatened to wipe them off the map (not forgetting the Holocaust). Until the Palestinians(Hamas) recognise that Israel has a legitimate right to exist the troubles will not cease. Rockets falling on your head and power being cut off and necessities of life not being available, aren't likely to engender good feelings on either side.

Dana	Posted: January 24, 2008 10:00 AM

i always enjoy seeing these conversations, because i am by birth a jew - which i guess makes me a messianic jew. i personally see the biggest detriment to dialogue as the uproar caused when gentiles criticize israel's foreign policy - you don't agree? you are an anti-semite! that term is carelessly and dangerously thrown around at every turn, and helps no-one. in the public forum, i have so far only seen filmmaker steven spielberg (in 'munich') recognize the strange dichotomy that the jews are israel...but we are not the same thing, not to be equated with each other, and not to be looked at in the same light. it is a strange paradox, but it exists. so i ask my fellow jews and christians to help the dialogue by not using the term 'anti-semite' in relation to israel the country - it does not help, it shuts down dialogue, it fosters false anger.

Aquinas

Posted: January 24, 2008 9:25 AM


Folks, in light of aftab's comment please exercise restaint. Or as we say in the world of internet blogging. "Don't Feed the Trolls"!!!

aftab

Posted: January 24, 2008 6:59 AM

Hi, Mary! Not many years ago, in the 1940s, over a million Jews were gassed and roasted alive by Christians in Germany. Was that out of love for them? Was the persecution of Jews in Christian Europe for over 18 centuries out of love of the Jews? Have you heard of the Inquisition? Was that an expression of love for them? And, how would you feel if you knew that the Jews believe that Christ was not only a false Messiah but the son not of God of a Roman soldier? Ask your Jewish friend what she thinks of the geneology of Jesus Christ? Take off the blinkers, lady! As soon as the Jews get the whole of Palestine, with the help of deluded Christians like you, they will be laughing up their sleeves and planning how best to crucify Christ when he comes again.

William Mohlenhoff

Posted: January 23, 2008 6:44 PM

There is nothing for any of us to be arrogant about. we are all children of the same Creator. We all have free will and use it for our own perceived best purposes without regard for the needs of others. HE selected one family with whom HE could concentrate the message for us all to bring us to understanding of His intentions in creating us. He trained the fortunate family of the Patriarch Abraham in the most civilized nations of the time. Then, as prophesied in over 300 prophecies in the Hebrew Bible, HE brought a tangible form of Himself to earth when His sojourn could be recorded. At that time, He taught, carried out miraculous healing and other demonstrations of who He is. He then scheduled His horrible death on the Roman cross to be a clear and unmistakable gesture of His love and desire to forgive us for our errant exercise of free will, given only that we will believe in His gesture and cause our spirit to change to rid us of our errors as we complete our sojourn.

Mel	Posted: January 23, 2008 6:07 PM

Christians who think God's will is being done in Israel today should ask themselves if it's God's will that Jew and Palestinian kill each other. They should also ask themselves if it's God's will for IDF forces to regularly murder and brutalize unarmed Palestinians. This is well documented by Israelis themselves, many of whom are disgusted and ashamed of what takes place. The Christian's only response to Israel should be to seek reconciliation and justice.

pro-Christian/Muslim Brotherhood

Posted: January 23, 2008 5:11 PM

Good article, Highlights the sick obsession Christians have for the Jews perfectly. Professor 'Jones' is a good example of the Christian believer who follows the Aryan Christ. As for supporting the 'Palestinian cause', if only it were true. I've always advocated the brotherhood between Muslim and Christian, both are the bastard spawn of Abraham after all. And for the good Rabbi's plea 'for a different sort of conversation', I say why? Jews and Israel should have nothing to do with Christianity, a religion that wants to wipe them out just as Islam does. Professor 'Jones' is just one of millions.

Gaylan Mathiesen

Posted: January 23, 2008 4:35 PM

Rabbi Poupko makes a good point that we are discussing a third party here. The polarities of seeing Israel as either demonic or without fault is of help to no one, and it's embarrassing to see such a debate carried out on the alleged basis of biblical theology. What is biblical is the pursuit of justice, and a safe and peaceful environment for all concerned. The Rabbi shows this concern when he says that regardless of whatever divine right, if any, that Israel has, there should be a willingness to forego sovereignty for the sake of peace with Palestinians. Israel should be a homeland of equal and just treatment for all of its residents. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights applies there as much as it does anywhere else. War and violence is not a long-term solution, but only robs yet another generation of what God desires for all of us: love your neighbor as yourself.

Anonymous

Posted: January 23, 2008 1:19 PM


bravo.

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