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Christianity Today, March (Web-only), 2008 |

Seven Years in the Making, Draft ELCA Statement on Sexuality Punts

"This church does not have consensus," committee says.

Daniel Burke, Religion News Service | posted 3/14/2008 09:09AM

A long-awaited draft statement by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America shies from taking a position on homosexuality, saying the church has yet to reach consensus on the matter.

Current ELCA policies, ...

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sandra

Posted: March 20, 2008 2:32 PM

Why does the ELCA spend so much of its time trying to figure out how to protect the sex lives of its pastors with little or no regard for Biblical teachings and church tradition? These (there are at least three) poorly drafted sexuality studies have cost over a million dollars and countless hours of debate. No longer is the ELCA spreading the gospel through missions. No longer is it teaching that the way to salvation is through Christ alone. After a life time of being a Lutheran (including attending an ELCA college and serving in many leadership positions in the church), I have had enough. Good-bye to the ELCA.

Mark S

Posted: March 19, 2008 12:27 PM

The False Prophet will make his appearance. Hitherto he has worked from behind the scenes speaking his monstrous lies through the mouths of human beings, the many false prophets (tongue-speakers) who do miracles but strongly oppose the commandments of the Almighty God. But in the future the False Prophet, the supreme master of deception, will actually appear before mankind and perform breath-taking miracles to support his lies. Only those who have the true Spirit of the Almighty will not be taken in by him. Remember that the False Prophet has perfected the art of lying over and above every other spirit in the heavens. Indeed that is why he is called the Lying Spirit: that is his title. Others excel in different kinds of evil: but the Lying Spirit, is the Master of Falsehood: and he is most successful when he speaks through the mouths of the self-styled prophets of God - false prophets in the Christian Church!

Sandi

Posted: March 17, 2008 9:51 AM

I agree with Matt. The Bible repeatedly states over and over that homosexuality is a sin, going so far as to say it is an abomination before God. If you are a christian then you know that this is true and standing up for the Bible and God's directions to us as to how we are to live is not a hate crime at all but a love of the highest order. We want to love and serve our Lord by living the way we should and that means taking a stand for what He says is right. God will not bless a ministry that is led by someone steeped in sin. God gave your choir director a remarkable talent and surely expected and hoped he would decide to use it to God's glory but he did not tell him to participate in a homosexual lifestyle nor was he born that way. We know homosexuality is a choice you make because man is created in God's image and God abhors homosexuality therefore it is a choice and not something you are born with.

like Ezekiel we have to examine what people do in the dark

Posted: March 16, 2008 3:31 PM

We have to find loving ways to engage with people outside of the church so that they experience love and repent; just like Jesus ate with sinners. And pride in one's own cleanness is a sin too. But like Ezekiel we have to examine the church and what people in the church do in the dark, the disgusting things people get up to which God wants no part in. We must accept that homosexual activity is dung to the Lord and he wants his people to have no part in it.

Kurt	Posted: March 15, 2008 3:17 PM

God did not create gay people. People chose gayness, there is no proof that people can be born gay. Only rumers, which the community of psycologists never agree with. Anither interesting fact is that gay people themselves admit that children are more likely to become gay as adults. Which shows again that they choose it (probably through the influence of growing up in a gay household), and where not born with it. I agree with you matt. Not all sin should be looked at as the same. There is our sinfull nature causeing us to blunder with out intention and even awairness sometimes. And there is our chooseing to continue doing what is wrong - living in sin. This is what Gays and Lesbians do. Read 1John ch1&2, he talks of it here. This has nothing at all to do with what talents people have. Was David not a good King? He took what was not his in Bathsheba, and he got punished by God through the loss of his 4 sons on top of other trials...

Matt	Posted: March 15, 2008 11:01 AM

MCY, your question is honest and respectable (provided you're motives are not: that because people sin, we have a free ticket to sin). Yes, I agree slander, envy, gossip, etc. are all sins as well. That is why, we repent, then turn from our sins. So when Jill gossips about Bob, she realizes she has committed a wrong - then she repents from her sin and turns from it. This is the constant attitude of a Christian - when we sin, we repent and turn from our sin. When any sin (homosexuality as an example, along with any other sin) takes over our lives, and we no longer repent and turn from our sins - this becomes a problem. When this happens to a person in Ministry, this problem becomes 7 times bigger - if the sheperd is blind, how can he lead the sheep to the well? That said, I do agree that there are -a lot- of problems in the contemporary church. A lot of ministers should resign, or repent. A lot of laymen should examine their lives, and repent - or consider the alternative.

Kevin

Posted: March 15, 2008 10:58 AM


Since when is eternal truth determined by a majority vote?

Derek Simmons

Posted: March 15, 2008 9:59 AM


Consensus is an appropriate process for picking the color of pew cushions. The Body of Christ is not called to consensus; consensus is horizontal agreement. The Church is called to vertical agreement and when The Word Written is the standard and not doing what is right in our own sight then the "miraculous" result is Unity in Christ, not consensus.

Bernie

Posted: March 15, 2008 9:23 AM

I would like to belive that the Lutherans who could not come to a concensus on this subject did so in a spirit of love and honesty. Those who believe that these people are ignorant or wimps are passing a judgement that is not fair. I recently read a lenghty tome on the biblical issues surrounding homosexuality and was impressed with the depth and difficulty there is to come to a real understanding of this issue from the words of the Bible alone. I do wish that reasoned and carefully articulated viewponts on this subject would show up in CT and other magazines. That said, perhaps we could say that homosexual behavior is not part of God"s perfect will or plan. ( And nor are a host of other harmful to others sins) But I am not comfortable to say that i know how God judges it,and that is how too many of us Christians act. Surely we Christians have other issues that interest God much more from a Biblical perspective than to go around hurting each other on this one!

Beamer

Posted: March 15, 2008 3:23 AM


The scriptures & Our Lord are unequivocable on the subject - the answer is "Your Sins Are Forgiven - Go And Sin No More!!!!" Is yet another denomination about to give itself over to its "wisdom in its own heart"?? O Babylon! Babylon! I see you coming. Come Lord Jesus - faster!

MCY	Posted: March 14, 2008 11:48 PM


If we are banning homosexuals from ministry because of their active lifestyle of sin, why not the other people who also live in lifestyles of sin. Just look at Romans 1, along with homosexuality we see pride, covetousness, envy, gossip, slander; all of which I have seen in the course of a normal church business meeting! Why not throw out these ministers?

Matt	Posted: March 14, 2008 4:51 PM

Well it's nice to see at least one person here (Jeff) has his head on his shoulder. Ken & Chuck: Open your Bibles for once in your lives. It doesn't matter how you 'feel' about the issue, it matters what's God's holy standard in the issue is, which has been CLEARLY laid forth in His Word (See, for example, 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is a S-I-N, so why are we arguing about this? If the Bible says its sin, its sin. Anyone who is in the Church and flagrantly and unashamedly goes around commiting homosexual acts (for example Ken's gay choir director) should resign from ministry. There is no room for sin in the Church of Jesus Christ, let us repent and forsake our sinful ways before it's too late. Let the Bride wash her clothes and be made spotless in the blood of Christ.

Ken	Posted: March 14, 2008 1:50 PM


I believe with all my heart that homosexual persons are created by God the way they are, and I also believe that God is not happy with us if we discriminate against them in any way. My Church has a gay choir director. God did not give him the tremendous talent he has and then say he can’t use it.

Jeff	Posted: March 14, 2008 1:42 PM

Consensus is the place where all people come to when no one agrees. I'm sorry... did the "consensus" builders confer with God in His Holy Word? I think God has the last say and it's clear what he says.... So what's the problem? PS>>> An active gay or lesbian is also guilty of unnatural fornication..... sex outside of marriage is sinful..... These issues are no brainers. I'll say it again.... The bride of Christ is not made of brick and mortar... tear down the bricks, roll up your sleeves and get busy for the Kingdom....

John G.

Posted: March 14, 2008 1:31 PM

Chuck, nobody is born homosexual. It is a conscious choice which is made, and is in clear opposition to God's Word, both Old and New Testaments. Through the power of Christ, "gays" can be released from their so-called "orientation," and lead normal, heterosexual lives. Many have done so. Yes, some still struggle, just as former alcoholics struggle, but the power to live "the straight life" is there! There are many good ministries to help. But those ministries don't get a chance to operate when you have church leaders and activists saying that homosexuality is normal, that no change is needed, that they are fine the way they are. Those of you who say such things are the ones who are condemning "gays" to a lifetime of being lonely and miserable -- not those of us whose doctrine (NOT "fears and prejudices") lines up with God's Word.

Truthseeker

Posted: March 14, 2008 1:21 PM

A lot of "straight" people do very little romancing. Maybe they haven't found the right person, or maybe they have committments (to God, to work, etc.) that they feel supercede what is essentially a selfish desire for emotional and sexual satisfaction. While an important part, sexuality does not primarily define one's personhood, but you'd never conclude that from listening to many "gay" activists. Respecting what God has wrought in nature and Scripture does not necessarily equal "punting," and it certainly does not mean that you cannot appreciate differences and nuances in sexual expression.

Chuck Anziulewicz

Posted: March 14, 2008 10:57 AM

More wailing and gnashing of teeth over what to do about Gay Christians and whether to view human sexuality in anything but the most severe black & white terms. Personally, I admire the ELCA for at least acknowledging that there are indeed value judgements to be made in such matters. The people I see "punting" on this issue are those that simply say, "I don't make the rules, GOD does," while no doubt taking satisfaction in the fact that "God's rules" conveniently align with one's own personal fears and prejudices. But let's face it: To suggest that Straight Christians get to have romance, while Gay Christians must resign themselves to being lonely and miserable for the rest of their lives, is simply not going to make sense for a lot of people. How are we to believe that Straight people get to date, get engaged, get married and build lives together in the context of monogamy and commitment, that this is a GOOD thing ... yet for Gay people to do exactly the same is somehow a BAD thing?

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