All Comments for: Election 08's 'False Clerics and Schismatic Spirits' | Christianity Today

Free Newsletters:

RSS Feeds |

Audio |

Twitter

Home > 2008 > April (Web-only)

Christianity Today, April (Web-only), 2008 |

Speaking Out

Election 08's 'False Clerics and Schismatic Spirits'

The ubiquity of religion in this campaign season is distinctly un-Lutheran.

Uwe Siemon-Netto | posted 4/02/2008 09:56AM

The campaign season has brought many news stories and analysis pieces on religion's role in the presidential election. Beyond questions of whether Democrats can win more evangelicals' votes or whose health-care ...

[Reader Reviews]

Average User Rating:

Rate and Comment on this article

Displaying 1 - 11 of 11 comments.

Page: 1

Show All

Isaac C. Rottenberg

Posted: April 05, 2008 5:02 PM

As a survivor of Nazi horrors, this kind of two-kingdom theology frightens me as much as Jeremiah Wright's "ideologization" of the Gospel. The big problem in Germany was not so much Lutheran pastors who hailed Hitler, but a Lutheran quietism that robbed churches of their prophetic voice. What irony to quote the sad case of Paul Althaus, whose theology of "peoplehood" made him sympathetic to the Nazi Blut und Boden heresy and Bonhoeffer who, after his US visit, became a political activist. The Gospel of the Kingdom is indeed not about traffic rules, but it IS -among other things-about such mundane realities as justice. Thank the Lord, tertium datur--as I hope future contributors will point out.

Larry Perrault

Posted: April 04, 2008 3:47 PM

Huckabere of course was talking to a room full of Bible-believing Christians. In other words, to them, he was stating the obvious ideal that The Consitition should specift wgat they believe to be the truth. In fact, it already does. Bit clarification is called for in our perceptual context, as it was with abolition. Still, Huckabee needed to be cognizant of the fact that his words would be recorded, played to the public, and pictured as a call to theovcracy. Therefore, the comment was insufficently careful.

Wally

Posted: April 04, 2008 2:50 PM

This comment is more directed at Matt than at the article. I hope that's OK. Matt, it's not a matter of Luther or the Bible. Perhaps the author set an unintentional trap for you by quoting Luther instead of Jesus, but more than one distinction of Jesus' come to the mind of this Lutheran who happens to agree with much of the article. Challenged on taxes, Jesus said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's." Asked if he claims to be a king by Pilate, Jesus answers, "My kingdom is not of this world!" So Siemon-Netto's "two kingdoms" distinction not only goes back to Luther, but also to Christ himself. That being said, keeping the two kingdoms separate and knowing what belongs to which kingdom is not necessarily easy, and Lutherans to tend to be [certainly this one is] a bit quietist as history shows. I merely one to point out that Luther's very useful doctrine of the two kingdoms derives from Jesus himself, contrary to your assertion.

Matt	Posted: April 04, 2008 12:10 PM

I find it very telling that you have to appeal to Luther, instead of the Bible, in order to make this argument. I suspect you have to do so because Luther so blatantly overlooked the prophetic traditions of his own Scripture. The Torah mandating welcome and good treatment of the resident alien; Micah calling for honest weights and measures; Amos' demand for a just community -all of these are absent from Luther's account of the Christian life. And it can be argued that the two kingdoms theory had a great deal to do with the German church rolling over for Hitler in the 1930's. It was bad theology then and its bad theology now. Given the choice between Luther and the Bible, I will take the Bible any day.

A Hermit

Posted: April 04, 2008 8:59 AM

While Jesus' kingdom was 'not of this world', the radical Way of life he came to show and call people to had political ramifications. Jesus was crucified because the Kingdom he proclaimed threatened the structures and powerful of his day, both political and religious. Focusing on personal morality in only a few areas (homosexuality and abortion, personal integrity) allows people to overlook the sins of greed and materialism which run our lives and economy, that threaten the poor (and families-how many must work two jobs for the 'American dream'?) and the environment on which our biological life depends. We should listen to each other with patience and humility, and not overlook the prophetic call in a fustrated and angry outburst.

JohnH

Posted: April 03, 2008 10:52 AM

Thanks for some “back to the future thinking”. As an observer from Australia, I have been becoming some what disheartened by the obvious entanglement of the Kingdom of God and that of the US Imperium. Not good from this end of the world as it makes a mockery of Christianity in the eyes of the casual observer and life difficult for Christians. We have to clear up many misconceptions before getting to the nub of the Kingdom. The words quoted are a good antidote for those who confuse imposing their vision of righteousness on their fellow citizens as extending the Kingdom of God on earth. Both from a historical perspective of what has been done before – did it work well, or caused more problems than is solved? -and then extrapolating to the likely consequences of those particular initiatives. In a Globalized world, we need to be careful that ones actions do not make life more difficult for others. Your housing crises is a part cause of my mortgage interest rates going up.

Jean	Posted: April 02, 2008 4:07 PM


Amen, Raymond. Thank you for saying it as you did.

spamella

Posted: April 02, 2008 3:59 PM

I am no theologian, but found reading this article very uplifting. It seems one party is supposed to be "more Christian" than the other. When this article helps point out that there are only 2 parties for a Christian. The kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world, that we live in...If I am understanding him correctly. If not, forgive me. But, what I see from that is we are free to vote our Christian conscience and beliefs for either candidate, and vote from our core of belief. This does not make one party more divinely controlled than another. They are human institutions (dare I say appointed by God?) which we as Christians are obligated to pray for, and do our duty to vote our conscience.What is needed is prayer and Holy Spirit enlightening Lutherans, as well as others to vote as they feel God is leading, and continue in prayer for our nation and it's leaders...no matter which party wins.

Rick Ritchie

Posted: April 02, 2008 3:26 PM

Two Kingdom theory does recognize that God rules both kingdoms. But when it is said that our earthly laws should be reconciled to the Spirit, what does that mean? It is one thing to say that our earthly laws should reflect God-given natural law, which even non-Christians find written on their hearts (see Romans 2:15). It is another to say that earthly laws should be redemptive. When I think of the ministry of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:8), I think of the ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18). That is not the ministry of the state (Romans 13:4). The thief on the cross got what he deserved from the state (Luke 23:41), but was given something he did not deserve by Jesus (Luke 23:43). Those two ministries should not be reconciled, or as Martin Luther put it, brewed together. The state has one minsitry toward the guilty, and the church another.

Jim Voelz

Posted: April 02, 2008 3:23 PM

Kudos to Siemon-Netto for a clear exposition of Lutheran theology! If Roman Catholicism has traditionally wished to rule the world with the church (see papal armies), Protestantism has traditionally tried to make the world into the church (see blue laws and the Bill Brooks comment, above). By contrast, the Lutheran insight is that the two "kingdoms" mix poorly. Hence the traditional Lutheran insistence on appealing to natural law when dealing with society, a law written in the hearts of all and to which appeal can be made (even as a first step in Gospel proclamation [cf. Acts 17:27-29]). The Protestant procedure of conforming society's laws to the Spirit tends to be duplicitous in this respect: its point of reference is revealed knowledge but its argumentation will often try to conceal that fact.

Rich Allen

Posted: April 02, 2008 12:29 PM

While the article is good I do not think that in Maritn Luther times Gay Marriage, Gay adoption, and abortion were big issues. The reason most of us opposed Romney was for his actions as Governmor of Mass. He was classified as the 7th most liberal elected Republican Official in the country by Human Events in 2005 - a lot of this had to do with "gay" issues and state funding of abortion. You should see the videos of him debating Senator Kennedy. If he is the VP nominee for John McCain I will not vote for that ticket.

Page: 1

E-mail this page

Write CT

Print this article

Post a comment