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Theology in the News

Anathemas All Around

Charges of heresy underscore stakes of debate over Trinity.

Collin Hansen | posted 10/10/2008 10:47AM

Sabellianism. Arianism. Biblical authority vs. Greek philosophy. Four evangelical scholars delivered charges and counter-charges over the Trinity during an October 9 debate before about 450 people at ...

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Stan	Posted: October 14, 2008 8:45 AM

Collin, A great summary of a topic I have been hearing a lot about lately. But I would like a bit of analysis on who won. Also, is there any history that can help us decide which position is more consonant with orthodox tradition? I suspect that complementarians would take one theological position and egalitarians another, but perhaps there was more of a theological consensus before the gender roles dispute came upon us? Stan.

rayborze

Posted: October 13, 2008 9:40 PM

Why can't we all simply understand the word's that is written in the Bible?, is it because we have become wiser? or more knowledgeable in all matters? if indeed you are that person then why can't you show your true wisdom so people will believe and maybe perhaps you can convinced God to changed He's course of action towards America?. Truly the Bible is right in saying that the whole world is decieved, and the son's of disobedienced arelso decieved. Sad to say that the leading so called christian nations are the one's also leading the nation's to distruction, why is that?. If the Leader of this nation will bring people to Repentance, maybe God will save America, but it seemed to me that it's far from reality.... For those who are truly Living their Lives according to God's commands are the one's who will rise above and victorious......

Jens Aage Ibsen

Posted: October 13, 2008 6:37 PM

The belief in Trinity defines a person as a Christian. If you don't believe in a Threeune God you are not a Christian. - The Cherubim hinder our complete understanding of the Trinitarian dogma; but God made man strong enough mentally to live with SOME unanswered questions and problems. Listen to Johannes Sløk, one of the greatest philosophers of the 20eth century; he is also very controversial in his native country, Denmark (you may have heard of that extremely small country up north); pastors are accusing him of 'nihilism'. Sløk: God is able to create himself. On Easter Saturday morning He created himself into a God of Love. Jesus Christ is now Lord and God. The Son, who is now supreme God, also indirectly confirmed that, true enough, there once was a 'Father', a God who sometimes acted sternly and who was never really understood by the Jews, but now Christ is Lord and the Father has been substituted by the Son; The Father exists somewhere on the periphery of the Son. D'accord?

Francis H. Geis

Posted: October 13, 2008 5:08 PM

I am glad that CT gave us a short, but fair report of this important debate on the Trinity. But I must agree with Dale Fincher that W. Grudem and B. Ware have perverted the doctrine of the Trinity simply to provide a theological base for the justification of their false, hierarchical view of men and women, which is repudiated by Acts 2, Gal. 3:26-4:7, and 2 Cor 5:17-21. Another good book on the Trinity, for those interested in further study of this vital doctrine, is Millard Erickson's God in Three Persons: A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity.

Maurice Bender

Posted: October 12, 2008 3:07 PM

Eternity has had God in charge throughout all periods that have preceded ours. I have always found it strange to try and put God in some kind of an operating box for all that has ever gone before and all that will ever come after based on our book's theology for our limited minds. God can choose to act as He likes and since He is powerful enough to do whatever He likes He may have or may choose to do something quite different as he relates to some of the other creations He has or will deal with in the future. I am glad for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who has revealed Himself for His creation of us who are of Adam and his decedents. I have no problem with some speculation relating to God in all His history, however, I would think we should have much more important things to concentrate on as we work our assigned work while here in this particular part of His great and unlimited creation.

Dale Fincher

Posted: October 11, 2008 3:24 PM

Thanks for publishing this. I was unaware that this debate took place! What I find interesting in this debate is that a larger motivation than the nature of God is going on here. Grudem and his boys have been working to eternally subordinate the Son to the Father in order to push their view of gender, that women are permanently subordinate to men in their NATURE. It's a sad tale when the very historical and essential doctrine of the Trinity is being tinkered with because of a non-essential view regarding gender. Reader, be aware, of what many complementarians, so-called, are now doing to God what they have been doing to women for a long time (trying to find theological justification for hierarchies and power-plays). Since they cannot ground the nature of women as inferior in the created order, they are pushing it into the divine order. Kevin Giles has a great book the Trinity and Women's Subordination that gets at the heart of the issue (amazon it).

MP	Posted: October 11, 2008 11:10 AM

Good to see something of substance in CT. This is the kind of theologically practical discourse needed among evangelicals. The differences in this debate show how our vision of God does indeed effect the way we see reality, ourselves, and how we live. We should not be surprised by this, even though a generation of "mega church" anti - intellectualism, for the sake of doing "what works" has turned many pastors and lay persons against such necessary thinking for the faith and life of the church. Its interesting, however, that so much of this debate paid such little attention to the overwhelming amount of material within the tradition that interprets the life of the Triune God as the communion of holy love, a quite "radical" view that overturns our typical debates about "authority." May CT run more of these kinds of things for the good of the evangelical community. And I hope the views printed will represent the rich diversity of evangelical traditions and not just a select few.

t.	Posted: October 11, 2008 9:37 AM

play-by-play account as one said earlier, but doesn't guide us into a proper opinion. As a matter of fact, Paul wrote accurately that Jesus: Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [ possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained (Philippians 2:6) which means as it says that son-ship does not mean that Jesus was not equal with God but that he humbled himself as all of God's children should. But also that Jesus saw himself as being eternally valuable just as all God's children should. And all of this to please the Father who wanted children whom he could gather to himself. The problem in the professors' analysis is when they get stuck on dividing God into factions and then trying to dig themselves out of that pit. Although Jesus was submissive he could do it precisely because he was equal to God and great enough not to be covetous. This is how we should also be.

JVK	Posted: October 10, 2008 9:20 PM

The equation "Belief in no hierarchy within the Trinity's internal relations = Sabellianism" is false. Sabellianism holds that God is only one person who reveals himself in three different modes or roles (Father, Son, and Spirit). Theologians like Tom McCall and Elizabeth Johnson affirm the presence of three persons within the Godhead; they simply deny that an unequal distribution of authority is what distinguishes the three persons from one another.

chaliapin

Posted: October 10, 2008 7:51 PM

The Pharisees and Saducees are still at it. I do not claim that they are anything but sincere in their statements, but once again men are trying to "explain" God. Like the ant on the sidewalk in front of the power plant telling his fellow ant all about the theory of atomic fusion. When will we have leaders in the Church who are willing to say: "I don't know?" Or is their God that small? (Note for those who are curious: I am a former divinity student, now 80 years old, whose IQ has been measured at 152, and my God is so great I will never understand Him in this world or the next.)

Charles Riley

Posted: October 10, 2008 4:49 PM

I think this is an excellent article. These kinds of issues and debates need to be covered. There are statements throughout the New Testament encouraging us to study and to learn and be ready to explain and give account for why we believe what we believe. As Christians we should try and understand Scripture and its meaning for us today as best we can what ever level of intellectual competency the Lord has blessed us with. I'm glad the author of this article covered the debate and again for some people this article is extremely relevant and for others it may not be. Most of us will not have an opportunity to participate in viewing this type of intellectual exchange. I think it's great for young Christians and for that matter all Christians to see the level of thinking and education our Christian educators are blessed with. Thanks again.

Matt	Posted: October 10, 2008 4:24 PM


I'm confused by the title and subtitle of the article--did the debaters actually accuse their opponents of heresy in the debate? That seems to be what the title implies, but the body of the article doesn't say so.

David

Posted: October 10, 2008 3:33 PM


Thanks for the play-by-play. Nice work, Colin.

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