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Christianity Today, January (Web-only), 2009 |

The Post-Neuhaus Future of Evangelicals and Catholics Together

Charles Colson says the convert to Catholicism helped break down the most important barrier.

Interview by Susan Wunderink | posted 1/23/2009 11:01AM

When Richard John Neuhaus died January 8, Prison Fellowship's Charles Colson didn't just lose a friend of 25 years. He also lost his partner in convening Evangelicals and Catholics Together. Since its ...

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Dean	Posted: February 01, 2009 12:27 AM

Humble RC certainly demonstrates what humbleness is all about! . . . NOT! As for rating the article, I withhold that judgement. It is simply a sad occasion to have lost the three fine Christian gentlemen mentioned therein regardless of their religious affiliations. Mike, can I answer the question? Faith in Jesus Christ, even on his name is the only criteria for our salvation. Jesus said so, the scriptures say so, and yes even the Apostles say so. Church membership or affiliation is not even mentioned in the Catholic Bible which I have read daily for 55 years, 9 times from cover to cover. Oh, there are plenty of Catholic church doctrinal notes added to the bible about belonging to and holding allegiance to the Catholic Church, but i find NOTHING in the whole of scripture that requires anything more than simple faith in Jesus Christ.

javed iqbal

Posted: January 30, 2009 12:29 AM


yes mr Cotbus H i am agree with you only those who believe and abide in Lord Jesus can be called Children of God. Only Jesus can forgive our sins coz He is the supreem authority. God bless you.javed from saudi arabia

Matt	Posted: January 29, 2009 3:25 PM

Dave: Conclusion: Tradition is good. As long as it doesn't supercede or convolute a meaningful and articulate exegesis of Scripture. Once that occurs, Tradition must be thrown out for Scripture. Tradition is always under the light of Scripture, not the other way around. Popedom has proved over and over again that it ignores the Word of God for the sake of expedience and tradition (read Church history, where the Popes have stuck men on the stake for translating the Word of God into English and German; all because of the belief that it should be kept in the Latin).

Matt	Posted: January 29, 2009 3:19 PM

Dave: "The Catholic Church was around for 1,500 years...." Errm. Catholic in the sense of the Church of Christ -- not Roman Catholic in the sense that the pope of Rome is the head of the church. I'm glad to see you quote Scripture, that's better than most Catholics. However, I'd encourage you to properly exeget the passages, not read in subtle Roman propoganda into the pages of Scripture. Anyone who properly exegets the passages you are mentioning, beyond any cursorary glance at them, will realize most of the Romish doctrine is erroneous (I say most, not all). The Peter issue: 1. Christ is still head of the Church -- not Peter 2. even if we grant all the Roman nuances of the title "pope" to Peter; what is the logical necessity that there must in fact be a successor to Peter? 3. Perhaps less related, but why does Scripture indicate that Peter did most of his business in Jeruselem, not Rome? In fact, the Scriptures don't even mention Peter visiting Rome.

Dave	Posted: January 28, 2009 11:07 PM

With all due respect to our Evangelical friend Scott who seems to have doubts about fruitful dialogue with us Catholics. The Catholic Church was around for 1,500 years befor Martin Luther made his break. It appears what you are saying is that God is not Sovereign or Almighty, if He somehow let Catholicism survive that long before Luther came along. The same Luther who walked out of the Marburg Colloquy because some of his friends didn't believe in the Eucharist (John 6:22-69.) Paul had similar strong words (1 Corinthians 11:23-31.) You might want to check out Jesus' words about Apostolic Authority & the handing the keys to the first pope, Peter (Matthew 16:16-20) (Luke 10:16.) I would think all Evangelical people of good will might want to check out these verses. It would seem that it is better to have serious discussions, as did Father Neuhaus and Chuck Colson, then to dismiss dialogue at all. Sam D certainly has a point.

Matt	Posted: January 28, 2009 10:30 PM

Lisa: " Luther believed that you were saved by faith alone even if you committed adultery and murder 100 times a day." Hmm, did he? I'd sure like citations for that flagrant statement. "No charity in these actions, no mention of repentance, yet Luther taught faith alone will save you." Hmm. Well aside from your gross, flagerant, and perverse misrepresentation of the doctrine of justification, Luther wasn't the first one to advocate this, Paul was on board with this doctrine also, For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9a) Turns out, that's what seperates the Christian religion from the pagan. A just God, snatching men from a just condemnation from the fires of hell - By the power and grace of Christ - not by the scheming and craftiness of man. This is the foundation of true Faith. Then, the loving response of man is to love and serve Christ forever.

Julie

Posted: January 28, 2009 6:49 AM


Very well said, JohnS.

DARIO SALAS

Posted: January 27, 2009 10:20 PM

Well has the catholic church denounced the worship or veneration of idols??? Or they still worship Mary?? Do they still bielieve in evolution?? do they believe in Jesus as the only way to heaven?? is the Bible the word of God as long it not contrariate the catecism?? How about the pope worshiping Fatima??? Sorry but there is not way for them to be christians and still being this way, Besiades when they go to latin America thay talk openly against the christian churches! does not matter how old they are the only things it metters is that they follow God in true! In Brazil they want to have fellowship with umbanda religion who worship the earth and african dietis, they also like to pray with muslins, and with budhist! They will not ask then to be in christ but, they dont care as long as we all get alone!!! sorry but my god is a jeaulouse God!

D Poole

Posted: January 27, 2009 1:53 PM


Xinosaj, I wonder if you are one of guys that believe that Elvis and Andy Kaufman are living it up together somewhere in Costa Rica. Do you often see black helicopters overhead?

Xinosaj

Posted: January 27, 2009 12:56 PM

It'd be great if the Catholic Church clarified their teachings regarding justification, but there are other issues separating Protestants from Catholics. Their church is authoritarian - in Catholic countries, they expect to have real power. People like Colson look to these countries for inspiration in regards to how the Christian Right can take over this country and impose decrees on all Americans, regardless of their beliefs. More than likely, Colson imagines a multi-generational project where American Christians will eventually join the Roman Catholic Church and create a society where birth control is illegal, young pregnant girls are held in prison until they give birth, non-Christians are restricted from speaking about their beliefs, etc. This is the future that the Catholic Church would impose on America if it had the means to do so - and the fact that Colson and other Christian Rightists are so enamored with the Catholic Church raises serious questions.

Price

Posted: January 26, 2009 9:21 PM


Someone mentioned what was written at the Council of Trent concerning justification. The text of the sixth session of the Council is available on EWTN's website under the "library" section. Type in "justification" for the keyword.

lori	Posted: January 26, 2009 2:00 PM


Go, Go, Go, Chuck and the rest!! We ALL NEED THIS TO WORK! Godspeed. I'll be praying. Bless you!

Mark du Preez

Posted: January 26, 2009 1:47 PM

The root of the problem is not Justification by faith alone, it is a question of how we view scripture. If Scripture is to be interpreted as having authority in itself without any outward stamp of approval from the church - it is then that we can arrive at a true doctrinal position on forensic Justification. This forensic justficiation excludes love and any other work contaminated by human effort. What Mr Dulles or Mr Colson or Mr Ratzinger or Mr Calvin have to say about it means very little in and of itself. What really matters is what sayeth the Lord.

Justin Andrusk

Posted: January 26, 2009 11:20 AM

So this the Roman Catholic Church believes Luther was correct on the doctrine of Justification, then the RCC will be publicly recanting their existing position on Justification? They will recant the decision of Trent that works are not soddered to faith, so that we are justified by faith alone? When I see the Pope publicly acknowledge this I will be convinced. Until then it is just smoke and mirrors.

steven

Posted: January 26, 2009 10:17 AM


Another way to emphasize what Lisa has said is to remember Jesus said not all who call "Lord, Lord... will be saved"

Warren

Posted: January 26, 2009 9:16 AM


Purgatory is a mess, praying to saints and Mary is a mess. The pope as true head of true church is a mess. Are the other issues really worth discussing if these are not? After some dialog Catholics will always want to say, "Now you Protestants can all just come home."

asdf	Posted: January 26, 2009 8:09 AM


The pope is not an Augustinian, as in a member of the O.S.A. He simply wrote his dissertation on Augustine, and has a myriad of theological influences.

Keith

Posted: January 26, 2009 7:57 AM

Pastor Brian I find it amazing that your comments amount to nothing more then ad-hominem. The fact of the matter is that it is usually people like you who don't take the time to actually study what the Church really teaches about justification. Also I find it amazing that the Catholic Church is actually attempting to have a dialogue with Protestants. The fact is that the father of Protestantism wanted to throw out the books in the Bible, like the book of James when Martin Luther said "I would like to kick Jimmy to the curb," that clearly teach the Catholic view of justification which is the right view. Sola scriptura has given us 33000 different sects within Protestantism adding 500 new ones every year. Yes and salvation only does come through the Catholic Church and if wasn't for the Catholic Church you would not have Nicea, maybe you have heard of that with reference to the Trinity. Give me a break!!

martin

Posted: January 26, 2009 7:56 AM

The evangelical movement is the anti-political movement. it seems political because the catholics and the main line donominations gave up on Christ and the BIBLE along time ago. Then the govt and secular institutions turned anti-christian in the 60's and 70's, so the bible believing churches were forced into entering the political fray. There is an enormous dislike and in many cases, hatred for Bible believing christians. But the bible says it would be this way and it is. I grew up a Lutheran, but most of my family, including myself, left them and embraced the evangelical fundamental church about 25 years ago. feeding starving kids in Africa and letting boy scouts use your church is not christianity. These good works are a byproduct of christianity, but the denominational churches gave up on grace and faith and only embrace poiltically correct do gooder programs.

paul	Posted: January 26, 2009 12:45 AM


I read everyone comments and enjoyed them all. As one who grew up evangelical and become Catholic I think Jesus is laughing about how many of Christians (yes, Catholics are Christians too) dictate the direction of how Holy Spirit works. You guys are killing me. Good stuff.

Francis H. Geis

Posted: January 25, 2009 4:47 PM

Sometimes when I read comments by Catholics and Protestants criticizing each other, I find many of them are selective and biased, misrepresenting what the other side teaches by taking isolated statements of Luther, or Pope Benedict, or some other representative said out of context. If you look into things carefully, you find that the best of Catholic and Protestant theologians have always taught that while reason, tradition, and experience have a role in developing Christian theology and ethics, the Scriptures, from first to last, are the norm above all other norms, the sole determinative authority in defining and settling all doctrinal and ethical controversies. On this matter, as on others, Luther and others sought reformation because the Catholic did not practice what it preached, and had exalted "Church traditions" above Scripture. And I think both believe true saving faith is expressed by love and good works; indeed, a faith that does not issue in these fruits is dead.

Cotbus H.

Posted: January 25, 2009 4:38 PM

I strongly side with Scot...just by the mere fact the suppose 'father' of the 'church' (i wonder which of them) has almost agreed (He didn't identify it as such, but that's what he did) DOESN'T and will NEVER make the wrong right. That Christ is the Head of the Christianity, He is the ONLY one who can forgive sins, nothing that the suppose Catholics who still maintain the 'if u cant beat,confuse them' will that will change most of the believers' mind.CATHOLICS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS,PERIOD.Only those who believe and abide in HIM can be called the sons of God - CHRISTIANS. Dont be decieved by what they are trying to do......

Steve

Posted: January 25, 2009 3:38 PM


I am very saddened by the tone of some of these comments.

Lisa	Posted: January 25, 2009 3:15 PM

"The Pope...concluded his homily by saying Luther was right, as long as you don't exclude charity, that is love and the works that flow from love. Which of course none of us does" Is that really what Luther meant? If so, how does Mr. Colson explain this quote from Luther? "No sin can separate us from Christ, even if I commit adultery 100 times a day and commit as many murders." Does this sound like love and works that flow from love? Luther believed that you were saved by faith alone even if you committed adultery and murder 100 times a day. No charity in these actions, no mention of repentance, yet Luther taught faith alone will save you. Sin away all you like, just have faith and you'll be saved. Does that correspond to what Jesus taught? I don't think so. If Mr. Colson agrees with the Pope that faith must be accompanied by charity and the works that flow from it, then I think he has moved closer to the Catholic position than the other way around.

JohnS

Posted: January 25, 2009 9:18 AM

I applaude the article and am SHOCKED at the anti-Catholic prejudice espoused in many of the comments. The Catholic Church was around for 1300 years as the bulwark and repository of the faith before Luther, Calvin and all came along, I think it deserves much more deference and respect than it gets in some corners of the Evangelical comminity. It is still by far the largest Christian denomination in the world and through it many millions more are touched with the love of Christ than Baptists and Pentacostals combined. You may not agree with EVERYTHING the RCC preaches, but between the folks that have been fighting the good fight for 2000+ years and denominations that came into being less than 100 years ago (Assemblies of God) or 200 years ago (Southern Baptist Convention) I'll take the original Church.

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