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Christianity Today, April, 2009 |

Blogging the Bible

A Harvard-educated reformed Jew grapples with the Old Testament.

Interview by Sarah Pulliam | posted 3/04/2009 10:28AM

Slate editor David Plotz was desperately bored at his cousin's bat mitzvah three years ago. Not expecting much, he opened a copy of the Torah and landed on the story of how Dinah's brothers avenged her ...

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Brian Piltin

Posted: March 07, 2009 10:12 AM

The God of the OT and the God of the NT are the same God. You will certainly find the God of the OT disturbing if you don't completely understand the utterly evil nature of the people that God was dealing with in. You would almost think Him cruel to use the Israelites to bring about the destruction of the surrounding civilizations, but God's hands were in essence "tied behind His back" in the sense that the surrounding civilizations were evil and void of any desire to live by God's commands. God used the Israelites to "preserve" a portion of humanity so that the entire world was not in a sense lost in Godless behavior. You can liken it to having a severe infection and needing to amputate the offending limb. Obviously these people would have been spared along with the Israelites if there was any other way. One mistake we make in reading the OT is believing that humans are not deserving of death, which as Christians, we have accepted as truth. Trust in God that He knows what He is doing.

TAChaney

Posted: March 06, 2009 3:38 PM

This is why what the NT says about Jesus is so important. If it were not for him and his work on the cross, we would face the terrible and frightening wrath of a God of holiness. Jonjackson asks, “Where is Jesus, whose sacrifice is an atonement for the whole world?” S/he seems to reflect the theology of universalism that all people are saved by the work of Christ and yet this is not what we have seen here. SOME will experience God’s wrath. SOME will experience Jesus’ own anger. This is not TAChaney, but Scripture that makes these points. Jonjackson goes on to ask, “Where is the God who desires that all be save [sic]? Where is grace in this schema?” God does indeed desire that all be saved, but all are not automatically saved by the work of Christ, they must accept him by faith. Grace appears right here in that God desires men to be saved (to receive the opposite of the destiny they deserve) due to his love for man, and provides Christ so that man CAN be saved, but he does not force it.

TAChaney

Posted: March 06, 2009 3:36 PM

Wrath will come “when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction” (2 Thess. 1:7-9). Jesus does not seem to be the cream-puff that some take him to be. Jesus, like his father, sometimes gets angry (wrathful). Those under God’s wrath are called his enemies (Rom. 5:10; Col. 1:21; James 4:4). “The face of the Lord is against those who do evil” (1 Pet. 3:12). “God is opposed to the proud” (1 Pet. 5:5). There will be a “day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men” (2 Pet. 3:7). For such men there is “a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries” (Heb. 10:27). Jude speaks of the “punishment of eternal fire” (Jude 7).

TAChaney

Posted: March 06, 2009 3:34 PM

In Jesus' parable, the unforgiving servant was handed over to the torturers because he refused to forgive (Matt. 18:23-35). Jesus became angry with the Jewish leaders when they opposed his merciful Sabbath healing (Mk 3:1-6). To the wicked on the day of judgment Jesus will say, “Depart from me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41). Is this Jesus of Scripture the Jesus you thought he was? Paul says “the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom. 1:18). He speaks of those who presume upon the grace of God and end up “storing up wrath” for themselves “in the day of wrath” (Rom. 2:4-5). Of course, we all know that “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).

TAChaney

Posted: March 06, 2009 3:32 PM

Jonjackson says s/he is glad not to "worship the wrathful God of TAChaney." However, please note that if TAChaney has it wrong, then so too does most of the church throughout most of history. So too the Bible itself in its frequent teaching on God’s holiness and wrath; this includes the New Testament which is not exactly the wrath-less document that some seem to think it is. "Wrath is an essential and inalienable trait in the biblical and NT view of God" (Gustav Stahlin). Without wrath we cannot properly appreciate the doctrines of redemption (James M. Boice) as redemption is Scripture is FROM something. From what? The captivity and penalty of sin which unresolved brings the wrath of God. Leon Morris points out that there are over 580 occurances of the words and concepts that speak of God's wrath in the OT. Not surprisingly, the NT has fewer references to the concept, but they are certainly there. "Our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

jonjackson

Posted: March 05, 2009 7:18 PM

I am glad that I don't worship the wrathful God of TAChaney. I agree with others that Plotz is too subjective and even too intellectually lazy in pressing at a deeper meaning of Scripture. After all, what about a stance of self-criticism and a sense that some things may escape our limited understanding? Having said that, I hope we don't go to the extreme of the last post: we are all sinners and because of that, an all-wise and all-powerful God who brought us into the world, will punish eternally the vast majority of all the creatures HE created. Where is Jesus, whose sacrifice is an atonement for the whole world? Where is the God who desires that all be save? Where is grace in this schema? May God deliver us from such a small-minded and punitive view of his purpose and plan for humanity!

Brendan

Posted: March 05, 2009 12:44 PM

Brilliant interview, short questions unveiled the heart of Plotz's perspective. I imagine the Plotz is delightful to talk with, though his rationale for exploring the OT boils down to "I felt like it." He acts without an end in mind; for him the questions are more important than the answers. He claims to reject Jesus because he's Jewish, but really it's because he doesn't feel like he needs Jesus. He leans more towards atheism because he doesn't like the OT picture of God. He doesn't look for the cultural context because he's not interested in what the text means in an objective sense, only in a subjective sense. Plotz claims to want to "[take] the text on its own terms," but this takes more than reading a translation and subjectivizing; it requires an the search for the objective truth of the text, which Plotz does not even attempt. Plotz takes the text - and God - on his terms, which isn't just irreverent, it's a little crazy.

Melanie Reed

Posted: March 05, 2009 12:41 PM

I appreciate this man's comments, but I have a few question for him: When you were reading about Joshua and you make the comment: "In Joshua, we see the slaughter of innocent people. Why isn't that the subject of discussion rather than the celebration of the conquest of the land?" and "Anyone who can make you look differently at something you love—that's of great value." I think these two statements tell us that something is being missed when reading the Bible on your own (or in an institution), if these are the conclusions you reach. Interestingly, you point to the answer you are seeking in each. Let's take the last first and that will pave the way for answering the first. I agree with what you say:"Anyone who can make you look differently at something you love—that's of great value" The "anyone" here is God. God is trying to make us look at things differently. God's plan with the choice of fallen man was to look about the earth and see anyone who had a heart...

Ken	Posted: March 05, 2009 11:26 AM

The author states: "I'm the son of a scientist. I'm never met theological explanation for the existence of God that passed my muster as a scientist. That's as narrow an experience as he brought to the reading of the OT. There are famous scientists all over the society that are believers. For example, Francis S. Collins, who as director of the National Human Genome Research Institute at the National Institutes of Health led the successful effort of the Human Genome Project to map and sequence all of human DNA, ... Collins took the title of his best-selling book, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, from President Bill Clinton's remarks announcing completion of the first phase of the Human Genome project in 2000: "Today we are learning the language in which God created life."

Patrick Gann

Posted: March 05, 2009 9:46 AM


LOL, this guy thought Jacob was good and Esau was bad? How biblically ignorant can this generation be?! Glad he's starting to educate himself. And of course, the story is told from Jacob's perspective because that's who WE are, or at least who we've been.

IndyChristian

Posted: March 05, 2009 4:59 AM

Wow. I'm shocked that CT would give him airtime; yet at the same time, I enjoyed the interview. I think Plotz hit the nail on the head... "that passed my muster as a scientist". Bottom line for Plotz was, "Does God pass my muster?" How short-sighted. How arrogant. Perhaps some of the rest of us need to quiz ourselves -- is that the bottom line for us too? Are we critiquing God and His communique by our standards? On what basis? Where did we get this 'sense of morality' that Plotz believes can somehow just evolve, by which we can judge the Creator of the Universe? And apparently we believe we can also somehow judge His purposes, as He wipes out a world that rejects Him, and saves a 'preacher of righteousness' and his family. Or He wipes out a pagan, child-sacrificing society... to displace them with God-fearers (or at least a remnant of God-fearers) who are called to love the unlovable, and defend the defenseless? Let it instruct us. It's not a novel we're judging.

K Robson

Posted: March 05, 2009 4:25 AM

Thanks for including an interview with someone who is an agnostic. It is good to hear from people outside our inner circle. I too found myself very disturbed with the God of the Old Testament. After many years of study I can only reconcile the OT to my intellect by believing that the OT details the Israelites' interaction with God from the Israelites' point of view, not necessarily from God's. When the Israelites say they were "commanded" by God to commit genocide, how do we know God was not thinking "NO, NO! How could you???" But the narrative also shows how God can redeem the evil acts that humans commit and justify. I know this may sound like heresy to some literalists, but after 30+ years of Christian faith and study this is where I've arrived.

TAChaney

Posted: March 04, 2009 4:52 PM

This is why he sent Jesus into the world—to die in the place of any sinner who chooses to accept his work by faith. We are saved by God’s grace through faith at the time of baptism and so that we might perform good works. In the end God’s holiness will be satisfied by the punishment of all sinners, but his love will also be satisfied by the reconciliation of all believers. Thus, he is just and the justifier of those who have faith in Christ Jesus.

TAChaney

Posted: March 04, 2009 4:51 PM

Moreover, the God of Scripture makes no bones about his right to take any human life (adult sinners or pre-adult innocents) when and how he sees fit—after all, he is God and that is one of the prerogatives of deity. Certainly, God thinks he has the right to punish sinners with death. So if God has the right to direct his wrath against sinners, does he not also have the right to choose to use other people as instruments of his wrath? Can God decide as God that the Canaanites as a group are so evil that they deserve and he desires that they be eliminated? As God can he use the Israelites to accomplish this? This is exactly what the Old Testament account describes. It is just because God is holy and righteous that sin must be punished. However, God does not want to give everyone what they rightly deserve because he is also a God of love. He loves sinners for what they can be once redeemed, reconciled and restored to himself in Christ. This is why he sent Jesus into the world.

TAChaney

Posted: March 04, 2009 4:47 PM

The ultimate problem is that we too often do not appreciate the holiness of God. We are so comfortable with sin that we think God would be and should be too. Until we learn that God's holiness means that his very nature as God is offended, provoked and incited by all evil and sin, we cannot understand how it is that his holiness responds to sin by way of wrath or anger toward it. The same God who "is love," is also "a consuming fire" the New Testament tells us. This is why the great mass of humanity is destined for punishment. Only a minority are saved from this fate. The accounts of God's wrath in both testaments teach us about sin and God's attitude toward sin as well as unsaved, unrepentant, unbelieving sinners. Let’s have none of this stuff about the killing of innocent human beings. Adult humans are not innocent, they are sinners who have forfeited their lives by their voluntary sin.

TAChaney

Posted: March 04, 2009 4:44 PM

If the God of the OT disturbs one, then the God of the NT will be little better. After all, this is the God who struck down Ananias and Saphira just for telling "a little lie." This is the God whose "wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and sinfulness of man" (Ro. 1:18). He is also the God who predetermined a plan whereby his own innocent son would suffer terribly, die cruelly, and become sin on our account while dying in our place. If all this were not enough, our God is the God of the book of Revelation. Notice that while debate rages about millennial views, most Bible students are unanimous in understanding that Revelation teaches that God’s holiness has been offended and as a result his wrath has been incited. Whatever else Revelation teaches, it teaches that God will be victorious over all who are opposed to him, all who are not holy, all who are not united with Christ and saved by him.

Alison

Posted: March 04, 2009 1:08 PM

I'm a Christian but I'm also very disturbed by the God of the Old Testament. Sometimes I wonder if my pastors aren't just trying to put a positive spin on a very negative story. I believe in God and I believe the Bible is true, but I struggle so much. For instance, one of my big questions is why, as Christians, are we pro-life when God so clearly isn't. I think Plotz took the easy way out by deciding that God doesn't exist. Nevertheless, we should never downplay how hard it is to see the God of the OT and still believe.

AP	Posted: March 04, 2009 12:30 PM


I'd love to hear how a (I assume good) moral structure can be created independent of God. My first questions would be, "How do you know your moral code is good? What's the standard?"

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