God's ways may be hidden, but his purpose for us is not.
John Calvin with Knox Bucer-Beza | posted 4/21/2009 08:40AM
Has the so-called prosperity gospel turned its followers into some of the most willing participants—and hence, victims—of the current financial crisis?
David Van Biema, "Maybe We Should Blame ...
Show me a full-blown Calvinist - one who denies free-will - and I will show you someone who makes decisions as if there is.
Lil
Posted: April 28, 2009 7:58 PM
Our trials come to make us stronger in the Lord. No cross no crown. Our days are short and full of trouble. No matter what we go thru, all things work together for good to those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. Our true desire is in the Lord and not things. We should seek the Lord first and all these other things will be given us. Seeking prosperity and things rather than God will sometime lead those things to become idols in our life. Anything a person loves more than God is acually an idol in that person life. We just need to keep trusting in God. He is in control of all things. When we know that He keeps us in His care, we will be at peace and no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in we won't crumble.
TJ
Posted: April 27, 2009 12:06 PM
A perfect article.
Anonymous
Posted: April 24, 2009 12:31 AM
In response to Ron and the "Calvinist family of faith" comment, Calvinists have created their own quasi-religion and have made a demi-god out of Calvin and an idol out of his false teachings.
John
Posted: April 23, 2009 5:29 PM
Did God know before he created man that there would be a fall and the result would be "hell" on earth? Guess what? He still decided to create man knowing full well that MOST would go to hell? Try to explain that away?
Jay
Posted: April 22, 2009 7:12 PM
"God so governs the universe by his secret providence that while nothing happens apart from God's decree, ---."
Decree: an authoritative order having the force of law.
Are we to believe God decreed and decrees every abortion (including partial birth abortion), every murder, every rape, every incident of torture and abuse along with every other evil deed. Nonsense!!! If so He would be the greatest evil doer in the Universe, without exception.
Quit reading what you believe and start believing what you read in the Bible.
God is good and Satan is bad. It is that simple. We are in a war.
The definition of the word Satan is adversary. God and ours! Adversity comes from your adversary not your Heavenly Father.
This is the type of blasphemous fodder that has fueled the rants of vocal atheiests for centuries. Misrepresenting and distorting the nature and character of our good and loving God.
Jesus said every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.
Carl R Smith
Posted: April 22, 2009 5:50 PM
There is no such creature as "the prosperity gospel", there is only "the gospel". I suspect the majority of these readers have never actually heard or read anything other than what somebody has said or written about the so-called 'health, wealth and prosperity message'. My wife and I (31+ years) have been over time involved in a wide-range of ministries from charismatic, presbyterian, reformed and evangelical and have witnessed goofy teaching and practices in every one of them. The Lord must really have a sense of humor. The last 'goofy' message I listened to was a well known reformed radio ministry mocking the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Do we really believe that God has no interest in his children beyond getting them saved and sanctified? My NT is full of health and prosperity messages. I have been supernaturally healed at least once. Biblical prosperity is defined (at least by me) as having sufficient resources to meet our family's needs and help meet the needs of others! Amen!
Ken M
Posted: April 22, 2009 3:07 PM
Such a poor understanding of the true prosperity gospel. Money is such a small part of it and we can be prosperous with it or without it!!
Dr. James Willingham
Posted: April 22, 2009 11:47 AM
Long ago I came to the conclusion that the Bible really does teach that God is Sovereign over all and in all. While I had problems with Calvin's state church and persecution, I had no problems with the concepts of Sovereign Grace which are magnifid in John Newton's Amazing Grace. One of the strangest things was to find out that Divine Soverignty provides for true liberalism - note, not license. These teachings are like the paradoxical interventions of the counselors. They are clearly put into operation by our Lord...as in the case of the woman of Canaan in Mt.15:21-28. She seeks help, and Jesus responds with silence. She presses his disciples to help, and they ask Jesus to send her away. He says He is not sent but to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. The woman is a gentile. Her response is to worship? To fall down before Him. Then he says it is not right to take the children's bread and cast it to dogs. She agrees with Him: Truth, Lord. That leads to His commendation.
Ron
Posted: April 22, 2009 9:31 AM
Although I enjoyed the article, I was stunned by the identification of the author as a member of the "Calvinist family of faith." I may be reading too much into this "signature" but I found that irritating. Are we not members of the "body of Christ?" Have we, as the body of Christ, become so "specialized" that we have to identify ourselves by those humans we follow? Didn't Paul address this in 1 Corinthians 3 on divisions in the church? If I am over-analyzing this, I apologize, but it seemed to say that if you did not consider yourself a member of the "Calvinist family of faith" you cannot see the hand of God at work in times of crisis and difficulty.
chaliapin
Posted: April 22, 2009 8:27 AM
As usual, everything that has been said revolves around us, and what we want, and what we feel we should get. We see God as our servant, even as our slave. When He does not make everything perfect for us, He is wrong, wrathful, absolutely terrible! God is supposed to make sure that not one of us ever suffers any wrong, deprivation, discomfort, or anything else that we feel is "bad". God has already given us everything we need. What we do with it controls our life. We are GOD's servants, and we are to care for this planet and everyone on it. The idea that God owes us, even in the backhanded way espoused here, is wrong. WE owe HIM! Trust Him with/for everything! We trust our machinery more than we do Him! He has given us more power than we can possibly use. With faith, we can move mountains!!!! Re-read the miracles from Genesis to Revelation. They are not "miracles" that defy nature. They are the power God has given us through faith in HIM.
pete Benson, editor UNITYINCHRIST.COM
Posted: April 22, 2009 5:57 AM
The older I get, the more I realize several immense truths stated in this short article (maybe I'm becoming a Calvinist in my old age!) "God so governs the universe by his secret providence that while nothing happens apart from God's decree, his hand remains largely hidden from us", and the other, "He is most present in our lives when he seems most hidden." Both deserve to become oft used quotes, to keep our focus on our real redemption and sanctification which the Lord is bringing about in our lives.
andrea
Posted: April 22, 2009 2:19 AM
beautiful encouraging thoughts, thanks
Jeffrey
Posted: April 21, 2009 8:15 PM
The article above does not fully reflect on what the Bible says. The Bible is full of directions for people to live by, grow in, and prosper through. It is through a correct interpretation, understanding, and practice of the commands, statutes, ordinances, and laws that are in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, that a person could come to a full revelation of what God has had originally planned for all of humanity from the beginning. God does have control over everything that occurs in life, both the good and the bad, using both to accomplish an ends He desires. It is through the application of God's Word in life that life will change ultimately for the good, even if we currently have hard times to face. Nothing should be taken out of it as being considered no longer applicable because Jesus said that not one tittle will be removed until all is fulfilled.
Slippo
Posted: April 21, 2009 6:29 PM
As one also unemployed and struggling to remain content with his lot, this article reinforces that like Job, bad things happen to good people without any apparent reason. As a christian though, I can remain assured that God is working his good in all situations and instead of wondering why it is happening i can be assured that God is sovereign and in control. All I can do is pray and continue to act in a Christ like way.
Charles
Posted: April 21, 2009 5:13 PM
I agree with Dave and Kenny that God did not cause the financial crisis. However, I do believe that God in His sovereignty allowed the crisis to occur. Furthermore, God allows us to reap the consequences of our greed. However, God, again in His sovereignty, will use the financial crisis to strengthen and develop the character of those who trust in Him. Remember the promise of Romans 8:28. God did not promise that everything that happens in the life of those who love God and are called according to His purpose will be good. Rather God promises that when we trust Him, He will work all things, even a financial crisis, for our good. That is the God I rely on during times of adversity.
Shirley
Posted: April 21, 2009 5:00 PM
I don't think the article was very clear. It brought up more questions than answers.
http://ketch22.wordpress.com
Posted: April 21, 2009 4:21 PM
While I agree that Calvinism takes away from the suffering and purpose of the cross... I largely agree that this article hits the nail on the head. Olsteen and those prosperity preachers often misunderstand God's purpose for man. If He promises prosperity, where is it for those suffering in the Churches of China? Or those Christians hiding in Iraq? God doesn't promise wealth... but a far greater success in Him and the treasures of heaven.
Paul Goddard
Posted: April 21, 2009 3:46 PM
How unfortunate that some will take any scrap of an opportunity to attack what they disagree with (in this case Calvinism) and not have the maturity to consider the article on its own merits.
God is a physician or maybe a physical therapist, putting me through pain to make me whole. What a comforting picture.
Dave Jones
Posted: April 21, 2009 3:25 PM
Kenny, you really missed the boat. God did not cause the financial meltdown, but we can be assured He is using to the greater good of His people. Adversity is the Lord's winnowing fork, separating the wheat from the chaff. Man's sinfulness may cause a crisis, but God ordains it for the betterment of His elect. "It is far better for the children of God to be blessed, though mutilated and half-destroyed, than to desire that peace in which they shall fall asleep. Our ultimate security and prosperity is found only in Christ and will be fully realized only in glory."
BLW
Posted: April 21, 2009 3:04 PM
The G - I'm not quite sure how you can read what Calvin just wrote and say that.
Gary
Posted: April 21, 2009 3:01 PM
I needed this. How reassuring that His sovereignty does not need a bailout. Seriously, caught in the swarm of blame-everyone-else Bees, it is genuinely clarifying to hear this guy Calvin lift the eyes of our hurt to a higher level than now prevails. How my own and my neighbors' (both the greedy ones and the "innocents" way over their financial heads) personal, financial, and governance failures are part of a wholly holy event of Grace gives me assurance that the solution is not from me...maybe through me. Say, what's Calvin's last name? He must have written this last week. I'd like to Google him for more insights.
t
Posted: April 21, 2009 2:53 PM
David L has neither read his very own response nor the article properly. They are both saying the same thing, so I wonder why he has only given one star. Calvin said it clearly that we are sinners because of the fall and need the hand of guidance in our lives. Furthermore, the article itself says , as does David L. "We should take comfort in our suffering knowing that it can be redemptive."
Andrew
Posted: April 21, 2009 2:12 PM
It's these kinds of assumptions as to what causes things to happen the way they do that makes thinking people dismiss classical theology as claptrap.
David L
Posted: April 21, 2009 1:52 PM
Calvinism seems to miss that all sin and suffering is a result of the fall not the divine plan of God to put us through "Hell" on earth. We are to blame for our sufferings. God did not make me sin. The men and women who got us into this mess are not merely the puppets of the High Puppet Master. We should take comfort in our suffering knowing that it can be redemptive.
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