All Comments for: The Workers Are Few | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction

Free Newsletters:

RSS Feeds |

Audio |

Twitter

Home > 2009 > August

Christianity Today, August, 2009 |

The Workers Are Few

Gap exists between what large churches need and what seminaries produce.

Bobby Ross Jr. | posted 7/14/2009 10:17AM

Need a seminary graduate with ministerial experience who is eager to serve as senior pastor of a church with 1,000 members or more? No problem.

A posting for such a position can draw anywhere from 50 to ...

[Reader Reviews]

Average User Rating:

Rate and Comment on this article

Displaying 1 - 25 of 31 comments.

Page: 1 2

Show All

midlife seminarian

Posted: July 23, 2009 7:41 AM


Perhaps if they weren't so focused on finding "God's man" they would find a woman who is called to do the job.

confused

Posted: July 18, 2009 3:30 PM


Why should someone right out of seminary be a fit candidate for a church as described above?

Cahyadi Tjokro

Posted: July 17, 2009 9:39 PM

It is frustrating to see how churches being trapped in the rat race - like the rest of the world. God's economy for His church was, is, and will never be the same as the world's one. He raised the fool and lowly to be the stumbling stone for the arrogant & "smart". Please look on how Jesus did His leadership regeneration? -- Take up your cross & follow Me. Please stop pretending that our churches' idolatry to her self is OK and please stop thinking that the bigger your church, the happier God is. In the end, it is not so much how many you've gathered as how much you have sacrificed. Please don't change churches into corporations or conglomerate companies even. "God's work done in God's way will never lack of God's provision." Stop acting like gentiles and start living out your faith.

tharvey

Posted: July 17, 2009 8:17 PM


This infatuation with meg-congregations is troubling. We seem to be caught up in the peripheral "services" like baby sitting, coffee shops, dialogue sessions and self-help groups and forgetting our purpose is to preach the gospel to the lost.

ryan	Posted: July 17, 2009 4:58 PM


Whoever said it was the seminary's job to product these types of pastors? Proposed alternate article title: "The Workers are Many...Unless You Require a Pastor Who Desires Corporate Management as Much as He or She Desires to do the Kingdom Work of Pastoring."

Jon	Posted: July 16, 2009 3:56 PM


Perhaps a better question to ask, instead of writing an article perpetuating a mislead and misguided view on church leadership, is "Is the church still the church if it isn't functioning like a church anymore?" This is sad, really sad.

Joe	Posted: July 16, 2009 12:37 PM

Perhaps the issue is to take a mega church and transform it into several mid-size churches. As long as we have the fantasy that "bigger is better", we will have problems finding pastors for the big churches, and at the same time, demean all other churches. When the church in Jerusalem was getting big, God sent them to Samaria and other parts of the world. Before trying to find "God's man" for the job, first find God's plan for the church.

Dale Fincher

Posted: July 15, 2009 11:24 PM


Soooo it sounds like the house church movement just got another article to quote for us to rethink our hierarchical approach to "church"... that our "churches" need so much management should first make us question what "church" is supposed to be, not what seminaries are supposed to produce. I appreciated the comment by "Michael."

Andrew Yeager-Buckley

Posted: July 15, 2009 4:52 PM


I'm not sure which quote made my stomach hurt more, "The seminaries are not preparing guys to pastor large churches" or "We really want God's man for this place". Do you hear a theme?

Johann

Posted: July 15, 2009 10:59 AM

Wait a minute- since when do you need an actual degree to be a pastor? Joel Osteen, Joyce Myer, et al just hear the call and people will flock to their megachurches to hear them talk out of their elbows. Why do evangelicals need an education, while Pentecostal leaders simply preach from the Bible? Doesn't the Holy Spirit guide you? I'm being sarcastic- but American Protestantism is in a sad state when its most public leaders are literally uneducated morons such as you see on TBN.

Michael

Posted: July 15, 2009 10:09 AM

Thank you for this article. As a seminarian with only a few classes to go before my M. Div, I'm glad to hear that my years of Bible study, with a working knowledge of both major biblical languages, extensive work in hermeneutics and homiletics, as well as hundreds of hours studying the theological evolution of the past 2000 years was all for not. It is refreshing to know that every theologian who preceded the past 50 years was wrong about what makes a good pastor. Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Owen, among others thought that the pastorate was too professional and needed to be more spiritual. Glad to see that they were wrong. I guess I should have got an M.B.A. instead.

Glenn

Posted: July 15, 2009 8:30 AM

Finding a pastor in an urban setting can be a daunting task. And this is not only true for large churches, but for medium sized ones as well. It is not uncommon to see a urban church of 200 people see over 100 resumes when advertising for a senior pastor position. I see there being two problems: 1) Seminaries are not training graduates for the realities of the pastorate. What I found was that most of my seminary proffessors had little pastoral experience themselves and the classroom answers didn't match up with reality at all. 2) Seminaries are too engaged in the latest academic debates which don't match up very well with where most churches are doctrinally. Dr. Cionca said, "If you're looking for someone who is a complementarian, a premillennialist, and 40 years old with senior pastor experience who is also a member of your denomination, then that is almost impossible to find." This is becoming a large problem as seminaries increasingly disconnect from the of the local church.

Lukas

Posted: July 15, 2009 8:24 AM


I agree with the comments of others and add this: it is striking that a "posting for such a position can draw anywhere from 50 to 200 applicants". Do we have similar rates of application for frontier missions... for the leadership of church plants... for the oversight of smaller congregations struggling to reach underchurched areas of the US?

Steve P

Posted: July 15, 2009 8:09 AM

I agree with the previous comments about the separate roles of pastor and administrator. I've been in the corporate world for 25+ years and also involved with a number of churches, and my observation is that asking a pastor to be that and an administrator, especially of a large church, is a recipe for failure. What I find somewhat amazing are elders, who by their very role should understand these things, don't see the gap between their vision of the "dream" pastor who can do it all and the reality that no one can do it all, and that the Bible requires (if I can put it that way) the separation of those roles. And it all begs the question, why aren't the elders themselves stepping into the administrative roles? Many, if not most, elders are elected or appointed based not only on their perceived spiritual maturity, but also on their experience with running an organization.

Andrew C. Diprose

Posted: July 15, 2009 5:15 AM


Brent is right and Gary also does well to emphasize the need for mentoring and coaching. Seminaries can help prepare local church leaders but future church leaders also need input from existing church leaders. Andrew C. Diprose (TUTOR for Distance Study Students of the ITALIAN EVANGELICAL BIBLE INSTITUTE in Rome, Italy)

Brent Vermillion

Posted: July 15, 2009 3:55 AM

The fact of the matter is that any large church should not only be able to find a pastor to fit the bill, they should be producing them from within. We make disciples, raise up leaders and plant churches. This is what the Great Commission is about. It is a function of the local church with a trans-local and global impact. The problem is that many denominational churches have taken all or part of the Great Commission and turned it into the great omission. The pastors of these churches do not see raising up leaders as a part of their function and it is a tragedy...

Rob	Posted: July 14, 2009 11:55 PM


We can pray that seminaries will resist the temptation to prepare workers for corporate America and instead prepare servants for the kingdom of God. Perhaps those head-hunters could look for work on Wall Street.

Gary	Posted: July 14, 2009 11:11 PM

Are seminaries preparing people to lead any sized church? I rarely meet a graduate who knows anything about interpersonal communication, group work, personal influence and discipleship, staff management, planning a retreat, board management, etc. It takes a lot of good experience and good education to learn how to lead sinful, hurting Christians and win new one to Christ. It is very challenging work that requires mentors and coaches.

RC	Posted: July 14, 2009 10:08 PM


seriously? can you imagine Paul talking like this. how did we get here? none of this makes any sense when mirrored to the WORD. Really, it just doesn't.

Jim Sparks

Posted: July 14, 2009 7:25 PM


"The seminaries are not preparing guys to pastor large churches," Goehner said. Get a grip. The only things that can produce a person (guy or gal) to pastor some of these large churches are: time and experience. To assume that a person straight out of "boot camp" can go out and lead an Army is foolish.

vir2oso

Posted: July 14, 2009 7:07 PM


Maybe it's time to rethink the whole "mega-church" thing. I must say I miss the days when I could actually go to my pastor for advice, instead of seeing "lay people" or having to pay for "spiritual direction." Bigger is not always better.

Pastor Phil Jones

Posted: July 14, 2009 5:35 PM

Can I say more clearly.....I don't feel your pain! I was expecting an article regarding the shortage of people willing to serve the Lord as overseas missionaries - taking the Good News to those who have never heard it. Instead, I read about churches that are LARGE having a difficult time finding qualified people to run their "corporations!" And..even paying $40,000 to locate such! Maybe these megachurches would be far more effective in reaching people if they would subdivide? According to RHMA, the average graduate will never pastor a church of more than 250. Most graduates will find themselves serving a "first church" in a country setting or small town. These men are totally unprepared for the challenges and opportunities facing them in such places. The average church in America has about 100 in attendance, with fewer than 4 teenagers. If this is average, then there are many smaller than 100! Few graduates are willing to consider serving in such places. Priorities!

Jon Brecke

Posted: July 14, 2009 5:31 PM

I don't know if I want to hire a pastor who is "looking for" a large church as opposed to God's Calling. I would worry about the pastor looking for the salary boost. I think these churches should start looking for God's movement rather than a "dream" pastor. I actually find that funny, especially when there is no mention of Godly character or someone who seeks after God. Sounds like they just need a good talking head, or good business man...like everything else in this world. Nothing wrong with a large church as long as they are seeking buidling God's kingdom as opposed to their own.

Kim	Posted: July 14, 2009 5:23 PM


Jacks of all trades, master of none. That's scary.

priscilla

Posted: July 14, 2009 5:08 PM


sounds like these churches are limiting their pool of candidates by only considering males. Every mother is both a teacher and an administrator. I believe I've even read of studies demonstrating women prefer to multitask as compared with men. But no. God only wants men to lead.

Page: 1 2

E-mail this page

Write CT

Print this article

Post a comment