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Not long ago, moviegoers were stunned by a filmmaker's strong religious convictions unapologetically manifested on the big screen. The media buzzed with controversy. Religious audiences voiced both praise and protest. Others considered it healthy to challenge audiences that don't consider Christianity a worthwhile subject.

The movie was Dogma. The year was 1999. And the filmmaker was Kevin Smith.

Smith's first three films—Mallrats, Clerks, and Chasing Amy—gave no indication he was headed for a movie full of frank talk about sex, relationships, and Christianity. Sex and relationships, sure—they were the focus of the previous films. But a crass and belligerent comedy about how American Catholicism has lost touch with the public? Featuring demons who argue over interpretations of Scripture? The temperamental forgotten black disciple? An abortion doctor called to serve God? Huh?

Smith may not be most profound theologian of his time, and his profanity-laced treatise offended many evangelicals. Nevertheless, Dogma landed some stinging blows against the soft "buddy Christ" at the heart of mainstream America's easy-listening gospel. Smith's foul-mouthed and amateurish film reflected the growing interest in spiritual matters among young people and their willingness to join the ring of religious dialogue.

So when smith visited Seattle recently to promote his new film, Jersey Girl, I couldn't resist asking him about another recent religious movie—The Passion of The Christ. I joined two other journalists to chat with him about The Passion, his Catholic upbringing, and, of course, Jersey Girl—which, despite crass behavior and language typical of Smith's films, includes a surprisingly moral and meaningful lesson. Smith freely admits he's made an elemental, sentimental movie in order to make his case for the virtues of fatherhood. Through all the film's sarcasm and trash talk, you can sense that this 33-year-old cultural commentator loves being a husband and a father.

Smith seemed eager to discuss these things—and, like his characters, responded to our questions in a blunt, no-nonsense manner that required a few strategic edits along the way:

Media: The Passion … your thoughts?

Smith: Still haven't seen it. I've been doing this press tour for the last month. Film Comment asked me if I wanted to review it, and that's about the only reason I'd go see it. Up until that point I just didn't really have an interest. I'm a big fan of The Last Temptation of Christ. That's a movie more about Jesus living than him getting beat the [edit] out of. Being raised post-Vatican II, where they de-emphasized the torture and beating and death of Christ, [for me] it was more about what he said when he was alive. So it doesn't hold much interest for me. But I'll go see it now and write about it.

One thing The Passion does is change the ritual of communion forever for anyone who sees it. The symbol of the blood is so central to Christianity.

Smith: (referring to his Catholic upbringing) The communion thing, later in life, just became harder and harder to swallow. No pun intended. When you're a kid, they say, "Here's the body of Christ." And you're like, "Yeah, of course it is." And they're like, "No, it's the body of Christ!" When that dude stands up there and transubstantiates, it's the body of Christ! It's no longer a wafer! You're like, "All right!"

And then later you say, "No, it's just a wafer. This is really more symbolic than anything else." And they still tow the line: "It's the body of Christ, [edit]!"

That's one thing people struggle with in The Passion. It seemed like so narrow a focus—the gory details of the torment. It was hard for some to get past that to think about what it all meant. But then again, the cross is the symbol of Christianity.

Smith: The cross is a much easier symbol than the crucifix. The crucifix is the one where they actually show the dude hanging there. This re-emphasizes that there was a guy on that cross, and he [edit] died for you. And I'm like, "Yeah, I get it! It's a very important part of the story, man. He's gotta die and come back from the dead." But I like the part of the story where he's walking around and living and spreading the good word.

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