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I get satire, and I usually get the message behind it. But I didn't see this as clearly pointing at the church. I saw it pointing to the ridiculous over-marketing of religious things; it looked like a Saturday Night Live spoof. Do you think your message comes through clearly in the film?

Swartzwelder: Well, I wouldn't say it's pointing a finger at the church. I think the issue of over-marketing is something we should be talking about in the church. If someone is offended or angered by the film, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Instead of saying it's a piece to poke fun at the church, I hope it would engage or shock or stir someone to the point of looking at what we allow to happen in church, and let that lead to a discussion.

I'm assuming you're not saying churches should not talk about movies.

Swartzwelder: Oh, heavens no.

OK. If playing a trailer and saying it's your duty to see this film is over the line, then where is the line?

Swartzwelder: I'm not sure I know where that line is. For the first time, there's interesting films made by Christian filmmakers, and we're really opening up doors there. But I think there's a danger of getting so excited about that, that we forget to remember that films, at the end of the day, are products. They shape culture and they're stories, but they're also products that people sell. I'm just hoping to spark discussion about where that line might be. I'm hoping that leaders and pastors can talk about these issues, and we can together find out where that line is.

But man, I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about film in church, or even show movie clips in sermons. This isn't about whether or not films should be used in worship.

How do you feel about churches "using" film as a means of evangelism? That happened in a big way with The Passion, with some ministry organizations saying, "Here's how your church can use this film to bring others to Christ." And it was done again with Narnia in a big way.

Swartzwelder: A huge way. And they're releasing Narnia on DVD in time for Easter, so we're co-opting sacred days for strategic release …

Said the guy who's releasing his film on Ash Wednesday.

Swartzwelder: Yeah, but I'm not making any money, brother. Not a dime. But you're absolutely right. But I just don't where it ends.

Anyway, how do you feel about churches using film as an "evangelism tool"?

Swartzwelder: What do you mean by that?

Billy Graham's organization has been making films for 50 years specifically as evangelism tools; they want people to come to Christ as a result of seeing these films. And even though Mel Gibson may not have made The Passion with that intent, the church still "used" it for that purpose. What do you think about "using" films for the purpose of evangelism?

Swartzwelder: Well, my approach to filmmaking is different. I'm certainly not an expert on the use of film as evangelism. I believe in film primarily as a means of storytelling, and insomuch that sharing a parable can sow seed into somebody, I believe in that. But the approach of showing a film and having an altar call is not my approach. I don't slight it, but I don't know if I'm the best qualified to comment on that. It's sort of a separate discussion, I guess.

Well, sort of. But one reason churches got excited about pitching The Passion from the pulpit was that it could be used as a witnessing tool. You could do the same thing with your own short film, The Least of These.

Swartzwelder: That begs a good question, because The Least of These has been shown in churches. But it was never shown in a church without somebody having seen it first. I just … I don't know, man.

That's okay. You're at least asking the questions.

Swartzwelder: Again, I don't slight churches; I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I do believe people's hearts were in the right place when they pitched The Passion in churches. We were like dying of thirst in a desert, and finally we had this fire hose. I understand why we get excited and want to promote. But what is the primary purpose of the pulpit? How do we share the gospel in a way that guards the sanctity of the pulpit? I guess I don't fully understand the idea of promoting products from the pulpit. And I think we forget that movies are products made by for-profit entities.

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