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Painted on squad cars of many police departments is the motto: "To serve and to protect." The calling for pastors is similarly twofold: to serve and to lead.

Two noble tasks. But those two aspects of the pastoral calling don't always mesh smoothly. Some people want you to be more of a leader—until they disagree with something you've done. Then they suggest you should be more of a servant.

Leadership sat down with three pastors who've had extensive experience in serving, leading, and figuring out how to do both simultaneously.

Leith Anderson pastors Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, has served as interim president of Denver Seminary and the National Association of Evangelicals, and has written Leadership that Works and A Church for the 21st Century.

Erwin McManus, after planting churches among the urban poor in Texas, is lead pastor of Mosaic, a congregation in Los Angeles, and author of Uprising: A revolution of the soul, An Unstoppable Force: Daring to become the church God had in mind, and Seizing Your Divine Moment.

Glenn Wagner is pastor of Calvary Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, a former vice president of Promise Keepers, and author of Escape from Church Inc. and The Church You've Always Wanted.

How did you recognize your calling?

Erwin McManus: I became a believer during college, and I thought when you became a follower of Jesus that ministry was what you did! So I told my mom, "I'm not going back to college. I'm going to go out and tell everyone about Jesus." I didn't know what that meant, but I figured that's what it meant to be converted.

I ended up going back to college, but I talked to my Christian friends, "It's going to be amazing when all of us, all over the world, are preaching the Scriptures!"

"What are you talking about?" my friends said. "We're not going to do that." That was the first time I got any hint that "ministry" wasn't something every Christian did.

Later I visited the church where I came to faith in Christ and heard about "being called to ministry."

"What's this?" I asked. They said, "Some people are called to vocational ministry." I had no idea there was any distinction like that. So I went forward not because I felt any new calling but because when I came to faith in Christ, I figured that's what you're doing here, following Christ. I didn't know you got paid or that another call was required to do ministry.

Glenn Wagner: At age 16 I was asked to work at a Christian camp, not because I was devout, but they needed a body. There a speaker challenged us to be all-out followers of Jesus. I really wrestled with that. He was a man I respected, and I wondered if God was calling me to be a pastor. The problem was there was no pastor I knew at that time whom I wanted to be like!

I spent the next years resisting all involvement in Christianity. But there was also the constant awareness that God was after me. No matter what I did, I couldn't escape the thought that God said, "You're mine."

Right before I turned 21, I surrendered my life to the Lord. I could not get away from the impression I was to be a pastor. It was an "F.I.F.," funny interior feeling. It was constantly there. I could not see myself being anything else.

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