Coffee (left) + Bonafide = GRITS

They may be Christian music's top-selling hip-hop duo, but don't ask GRITS how they got there. From the moment they traded their acrobatics as dc Talk dancers for microphones, the Tennessee boys have had their fair share of rejection, and not from people far removed from their reality; it was from their own brothers and sisters. The tandem of Bonafide and Coffee gets real with Christian Music Today about their rise to fame, the plight of racism, and how paying their dues has helped them solidify their calling, regardless of the culture they're trying to reach.

There's a lot of commercial sounds on both The Art of Translation and Dichotomy A. Why that direction? Aren't you afraid of alienating older fans?

Coffee: That's where the market is going. On our end the thing is growth. It's not like we're trying to make music that's going to reach a pop audience. If it happens to do that, great. We're just being challenged in the area of songwriting. If we're artists, this is our career, our love, our passion. We need to make music people are going to like, that people can get into. The way we write our hooks, our approach, we're just trying to evolve. We do want to be that next huge group. Not just the flavor of the month. Just look at OutKast. They're all over the place.

Bonafide: We always have been current with what's already out. That's where we challenge ourselves. We don't want to be old school all the time. We never want to put a date on GRITS. Any artist who longs for longevity has to stay current. You can't find an artist who sounds remotely like A Tribe Called Quest right now. There are groups that still have that feel and flow, like Blackalicious. But we were called to reach people through music that is reachable, that people can grab onto.

Now with the Dichotomy albums—why two albums to begin with? This is not your own spin on Outkast's Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, I presume.

Bone: (laughs) They're not the first ones to do the double-album deal!

Cof: We did a whole bunch of songs, like we normally do, and we played them for the label. And they had the idea to split them up on two discs—one project, but released at two different times. They didn't really want to hold anything back. They wanted to go all out, and we just rolled with it.

But there aren't really thematic differences between the two.

Bone: Not really. It's not like you can say, "This album is really serious, while this other one is a party album." It's more for people who really love GRITS. It also shows our diversity and our growth as a duo. And from an industry perspective, we're doing something nobody has ever done, much less in hip-hop. We pretty much want to flood the market with GRITS.

Despite all the flooding you've already done, all the units sold, and the positive press, GRITS is still not a household name. You've never had a #1 hit. Is it an image thing? Is it a beat thing? Is it a lyric thing? Why doesn't radio give you any love?

Cof: I think people fear what they don't understand. I don't think it's the music, the lyrics, or anything like that. We're urban artists, and we're working with people who don't have any knowledge of our music.

I don't know if this is necessarily true in your case, but some people have suggested to me that some of it has to do with racism. Does this apply to you guys?

Cof: Definitely. The black face scares them. Stacie Orrico, whom they've embraced, she's doing her version of urban music. Her beats are very urban-driven. That's why I don't think it's the music itself. They feel safer with a white face promoting that kind of music than with a black face.

Bone: There's a blatant division within our industry. We shy away from talking about race and about who's really running things. You see it in music, our churches, etc. In the Christian music industry, everything's predominantly white. Black music doesn't really exist in that genre. I always thought it ironic that Kirk Franklin never made the cover of CCM until he exploded at urban radio, but he had been doing it for all these years. Everybody was like, "Ooh, let's embrace Kirk, because he's big!" Now Kirk sells magazines; that's why you want him on the cover.

When you look at Jesus, he went out and ministered in cultures where people didn't even think he should be. "Sir, why are you talking to me? You shouldn't even be talking to me," said the woman at the well. His example of breaking those boundaries is what we're trying to follow.

I don't get it, though. Toby Mac has similar beats to yours and can be pretty poppy at times. Yet he's the one who gets the #1 hits? It's as though there's a stigma attached to how "urban" you are, or even your skin color.

Bone: I'm going to be real with you. We've been told our stuff is too urban, that it doesn't fit the format. Out of Eden has been told that. And that's basically telling us, "You're too black." That's where we come from! What do you expect? We get flak when we do music that's true to who we are, true to our people. That's why, for us, sometimes we'd rather be in a more mainstream environment. They're more diverse, and at times play more Christian songs than so-called Christian radio.

Is there a particular, more specific instance of racism you can remember when it comes to you or your music?

Cof: I think it's a little more political and subtle than that. We've toured with groups that sell half the amount of records we sell, but because they're "rock music," they're looked at as more than what we do. We've gone above and beyond what we usually do, and still xyz band is a priority. That's what I have a problem with. We've paid our dues. Jay-Z paid his dues. I don't expect to be considered on the same level as Jay-Z. I know my place. We've fought for it. Deep down, however, we know it's a black-and-white issue. That's why the "CCM" world and the Gospel world are two separate entities. It can be ridiculous. We pray to the same God, read from the same Bible, and quote the same Scriptures. But to get them together, people are like, "We can't do that." Or there's so many politics involved.

Doesn't it feel like you're wasting your time sometimes?

Bone: Definitely. It's been God's grace, his mercy, that has helped us heal from that, because it hurts, especially when it's coming from your brothers and sisters: "You're not accepted here." There are even moments where we feel as though we're the Affirmative Action of Christian music: "Well, let's put GRITS up there just because we have to. We need something." No, dawg. It ain't even like that. I'd rather not be a part of it if we're going to get that treatment. We've turned down offers to tour and activities to be a part of simply because they wanted us to be the token black group. We don't want to be tokens. If you want us there, it has to be because you really feel what we're doing.

Don't you think that's somewhat counterproductive for the industry itself, considering how huge urban music is in mainstream circles?

Cof: Most of the people at the head of this industry don't have an ear to the street and to what's going on. Their pulse is not on what's really hot right now. You have old-school people running things. Whereas on the mainstream side, you have 23-year-old moguls who are the trendsetters and the gatekeepers. On our side, things are very traditional, and the mentality is very similar to the time when Sandi Patty was at the top of her game.

How does one proactively effect a change? Do you keep quiet and continue doing your thing? Do you speak out against it?

Cof: Just be tactful. Keep supporting it. Keep screaming from the mountaintops and rooftops. Eventually, whether they choose to let us in the door or not, we're going to find a way in. Somebody eventually is going to end up coming in and taking their spot. God is in this and he's moving through this. What I don't want to happen is God passing through this industry and taking this music with him to a different vehicle. And then the Christian industry will be kicking themselves in the head for having overlooked it for fifteen or twenty years.

For more about GRITS, check out the duo's artist page on our site. You'll find biographical information and album reviews, including our take on their latest, Dichotomy A. Visit Christianbook.com to listen to sound clips and purchase GRITS' music. Look for Dichotomy B in stores November 2, 2004.

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