Ever wondered what makes tobyMac tick? It's diversity. Race. Hip-hop. Cultural acceptance. Broach those subjects with him, and you'll get him going. Whether he's fulfilling his role as Gotee Records CEO or traveling with his posse-slash-melting pot of performers, tobyMac—one-third of dcTalk—is always looking for ways to see beauty in the multiple colors that make up our culture. His newest, Welcome to Diverse City (Forefront/EMI), is no exception, bringing together everyone from Coffee (of GRITS) to pop-punk favorites Superchic[k]. In a conversation with Christian Music Today, tobyMac shares his passion for the subject of diversity, and ways to ignite a similar passion in his industry peers.

You're touring with Third Day. How does that work? It's two completely different audiences.

tobyMac: I already did a spring leg of the tour with them. Their crowd is into rock and a lot of praise and worship, so you bring my stuff into it, it ends up stretching a certain percentage of the crowd. Some are just not ready for it. Our stuff gets kind of intense; it's not exactly like "God of Wonders." We're worshipping too, in a lot of ways. But it's a slightly different musical culture. I mean, they're a rock 'n' roll band, so they naturally appeal to a pop audience. And I'm definitely a hip-hop-meets-everything artist, so that's pop, too. That's our common ground.

Your debut album (Momentum) came out in 2001, and your newest just came out. Didn't it feel weird to tour with an album that's three years old?

tobyMac: Actually, Third Day was hoping this new album would be out during the spring leg of the tour, but it just came out. Touring off of the first album was cool, but you could feel people were anxious to hear a new project. We were doing the same songs for a while, and we'd mixed them up and remixed them and made them louder in as many ways as you can, but we needed something new. Now with the new record out, it certainly injects the tour with extra spice.

Like you said, Momentum was reworked a thousand different ways. Everybody was Momentumed-out. Didn't it feel old after a while? You never got tired?

tobyMac: Some of the songs definitely got old. But my band is just so good. We tend to sit around and come up with different ways to express those songs. We've come close to mastering the art of mixing and remixing song in different ways. Keeping the freshness as performers. Of course, it can get mundane, but when we keep flipping it up, it stays exciting.

The first song on Diverse City goes, "It's been a long time coming now we're serving up the sequel." What has taken so long for that sequel to appear?

tobyMac: I haven't stopped! This album was done differently from records past. If you look at the stuff I did with dcTalk and Momentum itself, I would take this one-year break and focus on the record. Not do shows or anything like that. But this record was literally made in pockets of time when I was off the road. I did the dcTalk Solo Tour, the Momentum Tour with John Reuben and Out of Eden, then I did Festival con Dios, then I did the I Have a Dream Tour with Kirk Franklin and Souljahz, and now the Third Day Tour. So it's been constant touring.

You describe Diverse City as an album that blurs racial lines and brings everybody together, regardless of social differences. That sounds good on paper, but how does one accomplish that with an album?

tobyMac: I think the album is just an invitation. I don't think I can accomplish it by any means. But I can invite people to commune together. To hold hands together. When you see multiple races on a stage, coming together, it's an invitation to this diverse city. Then after that, it's truly up to the people, up to their hearts, consciousness, and state of mind, to begin to open up to their neighbors, even if they have a different color skin or they're from different cultural backgrounds or denominations.

But races, even within Christianity, are still not together. We don't worship together. Why do you think that is?

tobyMac: I think it's just heritage. And that's the one thing I want to say. I want to protect certain heritages. To want people to come into a "diverse city" is a wonderful thought. But at the same time, does that mean somebody has to toss aside their roots of black gospel to be in this fold? No. 'Cause I think black people have some of the best styles of music in the world. So I don't want to kick to the curb anyone's heritage. To bring these heritages together and enjoy our differences and delight in diversity, that's what it's all about-not to be intimidated by those differences or put people in a box or stereotype them.

So how come that idea isn't working in Christian music? It's not very diverse. There's no love for people of color at radio, retail, or the consumer end. Why?

tobyMac: That's an industry problem, not a consumer problem. If you make it available, if labels begin signing it, and you begin putting it through the system, then radio will begin playing it. I believe retail will feature it. Magazines will cover it. We just have to be willing to step up and sign it. Then ultimately, after all of that has happened, people will begin to buy it. We need to step out of our comfort zone and embrace other cultures and styles of music that we don't understand, that we didn't grow up with.

Not treat them as novelty, you mean?

tobyMac: There's some incredible musicians out there that are making hip-hop and R&B music, who love God and want to serve him. But they're novelty artists to our industry. In the general market, they're not novelty, but to us they are. We need to get to the point where they're not novelty. Take Out of Eden or GRITS. They're both incredible and passionate at what they're do. But in our industry, they're this unique thing. The non-urban-to-urban ratio of music in our industry is way out of proportion.

But not in the mainstream, where urban music is all over the map. But Christian music is mostly a mixture of pop/rock and worship. What's going on?

tobyMac: If you take the Billboard charts in the mainstream, they're serving the same people. They're serving middle America. Christian music, I think, should be serving middle America. But we're missing section. And I think that's the labels' responsibility. But things are looking up. This is the first time in history that I look around and see that other labels are talking to the same hip-hop acts I'm talking to. From a Gotee perspective, if I sign a hip-hop group, I find myself competing with two or three other labels, whereas before, I'd be the only one sniffing.

I find it interesting that Christian music has been so slow to jump on the urban bandwagon, seeing as how the genre is renowned for closely mimicking trends.

tobyMac: We're not only missing a business opportunity. We're missing an opportunity to reflect what a city on a hill should look like.

You mentioned GRITS. They recently told us they think programmers and gatekeepers don't want to give their music a chance, because the black face makes them uncomfortable. What do you say to that?

tobyMac: I think that's a bit of an overstatement. I read that article. I don't think they're scared of the black face. But I do think they're taking an easier road than diversifying. It's easier easier in the short term to focus on this one group that you know are already buying [pop/rock], that you know are listening. But at the end of the day, it's wrong, in my opinion. If we are to reflect the kingdom, we need to begin to open ourselves up to other cultures, other races, other colors of skin. My goodness, the Top 100 [in the mainstream] is doing it. The stations that you would consider … [He pauses, leaving the thought unfinished.] Anyway, I get frustrated when I think about the subject.

Let's talk about it. There has to be a solution.

tobyMac: I think GRITS has been embraced more than most. I understand that it has been a struggle, and we've struggled along with them. The bottom line is this: if we are to expand the kingdom, we need to diversify.

But even at the artist level there's little diversity. In the mainstream you see Christina Aguilera teaming up with Nelly, Gwen Stefani dueting with Eve, Justin Timberlake with Pharrell Williams. You don't see that in Christian music.

tobyMac: I think we are chained to what we believe our audience wants. That's the thing. I have seen Michael W. Smith with Andraé Crouch, the Katinas with Point of Grace. But there aren't a lot of examples, admittedly. It's my job, along with the Stacie Orricos and the Rachael Lampas of the world, to invite people from different races. It's absolutely doable. Think of Lisa Kimmey [of Out of Eden] on the first Sonicflood record. We need to begin to take our eyes off of what we think our audience wants and lead them somewhere. I'm certain the audience so wants something different. They're ready for it.

For more information about tobyMac, visit his artist page, as well as the one for his old group dc Talk. Click here to read our review of Welcome to Diversity. Visit Christianbook.com to listen to sound clips and buy his music.

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