Joel Houston, Darlene Zschech, and Reuben Morgan are three of the primary worship leaders at the world famous Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia

One look at the lavish concert DVD of Hillsong Australia's latest recording, God He Reigns, is enough to realize Hillsong Church is no ordinary congregation. A rapidly growing community of almost 19,000, it's become internationally known for its prolific worship music department and such anthems as "Shout to the Lord," "Power of Your Love," and "I Give You My Heart." But there's much more to the ministry than what you see on the screen or hear on their albums. Spearheaded by the charismatic Darlene Zschech, the church is all about its people and their connectedness to God and each other. In this conversation, Hillsong principals Zschech and Joel Houston tell us about the church's beginnings, how their worship team works, and how their extravagant live albums have nothing to do with skill or performance.

How did you first get involved with Hillsong Church?

Darlene Zschech: We started going to church when it was about 18 months old. There were about 190 people. There was no music department; everybody did what needed to be done. My husband Mark and I have been in the church for 20 years. And it's been pretty exciting to be there from the beginning, watching it change and develop and expand. It's pretty overwhelming.

Joel Houston: I started playing when I was 13. We started a youth band—it was the beginnings of United. I started playing the piano, and I was horrible; I couldn't even do chords. Then I moved into guitar. But since there was no bass player, I did that instead because I was probably the least talented guitarist out of the three that we had. I started writing song. When I was 18, I started to see worship as a cool thing, so I started writing worship songs. And our church at that point started building quite a reputation for praise and worship. So I was fortunate enough to be in a place where there was a platform for the songs I was writing.

So I went from the keyboardist that couldn't even play keys, to the guitarist who wasn't good enough to play guitar, to the bass player who was playing bass because he wasn't good enough at guitar, to one of the songwriters, to one of the worship leaders.

So how did Hillsong become synonymous with praise and worship?

Zschech: There was just a couple of guys. One of them, Geoff Bullock—who wrote "Power of Your Love"—played the piano. I played the piano. Some days I sang in the choir. Eventually, I started looking after all the vocals. I started writing songs in the early '90s, and in '94 I wrote "Shout to the Lord." It was around that time that Geoff moved on, and Brian [Houston, senior pastor at Hillsong Church] said, "You're the new worship pastor." And I went, "Cool! What does that mean?" (laughs).

How have things changed since?

Zschech: Things have changed drastically. In '94, the church had about 4,000 people, and now it's at 18 or 19,000 people. Our worship department is now 1,000 people. So things are very different. We've tried to bring the whole idea of worship and what that means and incorporate it into the whole team, from singers and musicians to soundmen and production guys. It's been fantastic, because we've really built this great team and this great culture of faith and possibility and trust.

Hillsong had very modest beginnings, but it now produces CDs, DVDs, tracks, songbooks, seminars, and more. How do you feel when you look back on the old videos, with the outfits, the hairdos, and the simpler stage sets?

Zschech: (laughs) I love it! I love it because it just shows the journey. I laugh and I cry because I know the people, the journey they've been on, what it took for them to stand on that platform, and the lessons we learned along the way. I love seeing the different teams, and how we've brought many different people through. . . . And yes, you do get a big chuckle at yourself. At the time, you thought it was great!

Hillsong and United are responsible for introducing churches to many new songs every year. What's the songwriting process like? Is there a lot of feedback?

Houston: When you're writing songs, you get feedback. I might show a song to Reuben [Morgan, a worship leader at Hillsong], and he's very straightforward. He'll nod his head or not do anything. Ultimately, I'll show it to Darlene, and she may tell me something like, "That line right there is not going to work." She's worried about what's going to work in the church at large. "It's a good line, but you need to come up with something that will be more accessible to people." From day one, I've learned to really work over my songs myself, chip away at them until they're all they can be. They say you have to write your song in private, then rewrite it in public. That's so true. You write the song, then you show it to people and you get their opinion.

Joel Houston, son of the founding pastors at Hillsong Australia, leads worship with his band United

How do you go about choosing the songs for live albums?

Houston: Ultimately, the song is decided on by the crowd. If people sing it, it's good. If it doesn't go over well with them, then it's not. It's the congregation who decides.

Zschech: I love each project because they're like a snapshot of the growth of the church. We have a combination of songs that have traveled beautifully through church life and have been tested over time, and then we have a couple that get written at the end. But we have a pretty good indication of what will work and what won't. Sometimes the church will surprise me. Sometimes I think, "I don't think they're going to go for that." But then they go, "Oh! That's my favorite song!" We do what moves the church.

Houston: It's a process that we have to get better at. The last three albums—Hope, For All You've Done, and God He Reigns—have been double CDs. My perspective is, I don't think that's the best idea. [But] Darlene is all about servicing the church with songs. And the church is broad. You go to other churches where they only sing the songs they like the most. And people are like, "Oh, that's my favorite song." [We work to serve] the greater church, and that means that putting stuff together that will appeal to everyone's taste. That's something I've had to deal with because I'm a perfectionist. If it were up to me, I'd say, "Let just lose that song, that song, that song, and that song," and then we have eleven great songs for a great album. But we're actually not just about what we think is good, but servicing the greater church.

Joel, you said earlier that you through you weren't "good enough." Did you arrive at this conclusion on your own, or was someone else telling you that?

Houston: I've always been aware of my "inabilities." But there's a special culture in our church as far as bringing through new people. I had leaders around me who really helped nurture whatever gifts I had, big or small. It's a matter of smoothing the journey into the band. It's the same story with us now, with the younger guys. They're working on their gifts. They're going to get better. It's a matter of time—when you put really solid guys around them, encouraging them—until they're able to stand on their two feet.

How do you tell a new member they're not doing a good job without hurting their feelings?

Houston: You have to be real. There is a standard of excellence in what we do and a responsibility to do things well. I was fortunate that, when we started, if we sucked, we sucked. We were just friends and a crowd. No one really cared. Now, things are growing. People expect certain things. It's quite a process to get people to that level. The good thing is, as the church gets bigger, there's always more places to play. In our youth ministry, there's six meetings on Friday nights happening at the same time, for different age groups. That's six different bands. So we have a roster of players and we all rotate. Nobody plays with the same group all the time.

With such a number of people, how do you guys practice?

Houston: [With United] we just practice right before we play! It's quite chaotic like that. The thing is, though, if you're on the roster, you have to know the songs. If we're learning a new song, we get [music] charts out to the guys and we learn them. We run through it once, and that's it.

With a church as organized as yours, I thought things would be a little more high-maintenance than that.

Houston: As far as practice goes, we just do it right before we go on. If we have a special event, like a conference or a live recording, we'll have rehearsals—maybe twice a week for four or five weeks leading up to it. But for the most part, week in week out, it's just three hours before. We get there, sound check, and run through the songs. It's funny because every player has their own flavor, so the songs won't necessarily sound the same way as they do on the CDs. But all the musicians are pretty aware of playing in a way that fits the songs.

Worship leader Darlene Zschech, best known as the writer of "Shout to the Lord," releases her second solo album in November 2005

How do you guys go about adding new members?

Zschech: We do try to make sure that players and singers are all in cell groups—Bible studies. There's a one-on-one level of accountability, and through that network we know how people are really "traveling" in their journey of life.

Houston: It's probably easier than most people think. It starts with basically someone committing to the church. Before anyone can be on the platform or be involved in the team, they need to have been in the church for six months, they need to have been in a discipleship [group], they need to have been committed to the Wednesday night worship study. After that, they audition, and if they're "up to scratch," they start playing. We have satellite churches in the suburbs and special services in different languages, and they always need musicians. So there's always somewhere to play.

Zschech: We have a couple of church programs for anyone who wants to be a volunteer. It explains what it is we believe as a church, what we stand for. It's very basic, like a "new Christian" class. [We make sure] they understand what salvation is. What the Holy Spirit is—the fundamentals of the Christian life. Then we ask them to come to our rehearsal night. So if they want to sing or play or act or dance or be in the drama team or the production team, we tell them to come to our rehearsals Wednesday nights, to see if it's really something they want to be a part of. When we hit the weekend, it's intense because it's service after service after service. You have to really want to be a part of the team. It's very hard commitment.

Through relationships, you enter the team, rather than us chasing after you. That kinda gives that sense of ownership. We need you to want to be there. I don't want to have to "baby" our team. It's a great way to keep the team strong, because that way you don't have to be looking after people.

With all this activity going on in the team, how do you make sure people stay happy?

Zschech: People's sense of fulfillment—that's not something that we take upon ourselves to be responsible for. That's their responsibility. Rather than just try to raise musicians, we try to raise disciples. Whatever you bring to the table—whether you sing, whether you play, whether you're great at something else—we just try to put vision in front of people so that whatever they're doing, they're doing it as unto the Lord. We've had to leave many talented people on the sidelines because they come here with an attitude. But when it comes to worship, it has nothing to do with performance. You have to leave your egos and all that stuff on the side.

It's an indefinite journey of character development for all of us, continuing to have a deeper revelation and understanding of what is truly required. When it comes to worship, it's sovereign. It's holy. It's very different from music and the arts. It's not for the most talented or the most beautiful. It's inclusive. It's every man, woman, child, nation, tribe, and tongue. It includes all the ordinary people of the world. Sometimes it has very little to do with your gift and craft.

Hillsong Australia most recently released the live worship album God He Reigns. The church's youth band United also recently released Look to You, which was selected a Favorite Worship Album of 2005 by Christian Music Today. Additionally, Hillsong worship leader Reuben Morgan recently released his solo debut, World Through Your Eyes, to the States. Look for a new solo album from Darlene Zschech, Change Your World, to release in November 2005.

© Andree Farias, subject to licensing agreement with Christianity Today International. All rights reserved. Click for reprint information.

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