They Think We're a Hate Group, & They Might Be Right
The "Christian leaders" in the media don't speak for me.

Since the world is supposed to end today, I want to share some thoughts before we all go. First, let me establish a couple of my personal beliefs. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I believe what the Bible teaches about homosexuality and the sanctity of life. Now let's get to the unvarnished truth.

This may not go over well with some, but hey, at least we'll have a conversation piece for our last day. After watching an interview by a person speaking for our Christian religion, I was less than blessed. He subtly blamed the gays, iPods, computers, evolution, and the fact that God is not in our schools for the shooting in Connecticut. I was compelled to distance myself from him as quickly as possible. It's a feeling I have had many times over the years when our so-called "religious leaders" make accusatory remarks about entire people groups. What's worse is as much as I want to distance myself from the remarks, I can't because we are still tied by the Christian religion. I can't because the people these leaders attack hear only their view of my God. And so, like an unwilling hostage in a cruel game, I catch the heat from those far from God because they assume I hold the same position.

Sure these leaders make a few decent points, but then follow it up with a very misguided missile of fault. When high profile leaders do things like this, I feel like I'm with a crazy uncle who makes ignorant comments while you're helping him shop. You have to stand behind him and mouth, "I'm so sorry. He's old and bit crazy. He means well." So to my gay friends, scientists, iPhone users, and others he blamed for the HORRENDOUS killing spree by that mentally ill young man, I stand here mouthing a few words of apology to you. And while I'm at it, maybe I could talk to my own fellow Christ followers as well.

While some Christians say that the reason we have school shootings is because we have taken God out of schools, I wonder why we have shootings in our churches as well? We may not be able to put a nativity up at a local park, but we can instill the story in our kids at our churches and homes. Maybe the fall in church attendance has less to do with the gay agenda, the lack of prayer, or abortion issues, and more to do with the fact that we are all too often seen as a hate group. They say that for fifty years we have removed God from our schools and that's why these things happen more. But if you go back fifty years or more and you will still find a host of terrible things happening even at the height of "the good old days." In 1949, Howard Unruh killed 13 people in Camden, New Jersey, with a gun on a public street devastating a barbershop, a tailor's shop, and a pharmacy in twelve minutes. On May 18, 1927, a man named Andrew Kehoe in Bath Township, Michigan, killed forty-five people, mostly children in grades two through six, by using explosives in a school. He also injured fifty-eight others. If you spend any time researching it, you will see that evil has been around forever. In fact, at the height of school prayer, things still went awry. China has marched God out of its culture from the government on down, and yet the church there is growing like crazy.

None
December 21, 2012

Displaying 1–10 of 100 comments

Ryan

March 19, 2013  2:19pm

We must remember that Jesus asked for people to repent of their sins. Mary Magdalene didn't continue to be a prostitute, Zacheus didn't continue to be dishonest in tax collecting. Jesus frequently commanded that people sin no more after he healed them. We can't offer the false hope that people don't have to repent and come to Jesus.

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LGBT Members of ADA's Church

January 03, 2013  12:48pm

Dear EyeEdinburgh, My name is Michelle. I am the person that Pastor "A different anonymous" was talking about. When he asked me if I felt excluded at church he mentioned the conversation he was having on this blog. So I've been checking in during the week to see what he was saying. I was not planning on jumping in myself. And he doesn't know I'm writing this. But I felt compelled to speak on his behalf because you assumed some things about me that are just not true. I do NOT believe he is a failure, and I would never tell him so. I grew up in this church. My family attends here every week. When I came out I caught hell from pretty much my whole family and from pretty much the whole church. Pastor was the only one who stuck by me. He prayed for me and he visited me everyday for weeks afterwards. He caught hell himself when they held communion at church and he let me participate. And I know for a fact that he still gets chewed out for it but he still let's me participate every time we have communion. And you know what? Other people are starting to get it. Other people are starting to love us and make us feel included. There's still a lot of hatred and bigotry in this church and I told him so. That's why my voice was shaky as he described. But I thank him because there is none in him and because of him there is starting to be less in the church than there used to be. He doesn't teach the church to exclude us. He teaches the church that I and my other LGBT friends are always welcome. And another thing. I don't "put up" with this church. Instead I LOVE this church. It is the only church that I have ever known. After I came out I was very tempted to leave to another church that was more accepting of me. But then I was meditating on John where it says "He came to his own and his own did not receive him." And I felt God telling me "People hated My Son but He did not run away from them. He returned their hate by loving them." And I saw how that's what Pastor was doing too by loving those who criticized him for standing up for me. So I decided that's what I'm going to do too. I'm tired of hating back. I'm tired of being bitter. I'm tired of being pissed off because people at church don't accept me. Instead I'm going to return their hate by loving them. And it's hard as hell. But Jesus is helping me do it and it feels much better than being pissed off all the time. I showed what you wrote and what I wrote to my other LGBT friends who attend church here with me. And they agree with me so I'm writing this on their behalf also. Thank you for your concern, but Pastor has NEVER done anything to hurt us. And just to make it clear we do HEARTILY disagree with your evaluation of him. Maybe if you're going to try to change a person from being hateful and bigoted next time you should pick someone who you know personally really is hateful and bigoted. Because you picked the wrong guy with our Pastor. Sincerely, Members of the Church of Pastor "A Different Anonymous"

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sheerahkahn

January 03, 2013  12:43pm

"*ticks checkbox* Ah, Sheerahkahn, thank you. The kneejerk "Why won't you tolerate my intolerance!!!" argument." And so you confirm what before I only suspected. You really should reread your posts...you are no different than the people you condemn.

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Dan from Georgia

January 02, 2013  3:59pm

Enough already! Alright, we get it. We are terrible homophobes!

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Dan L frrom Gee-or-ja

January 02, 2013  3:56pm

Enough already. We get it. We are homophobes alright? Case closed. I hope you are happy.

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EyeEdinburgh

January 02, 2013  1:24pm

"A Different Anonymous",: Whether you have misread me either intentionally, or simply because of the pain you have experienced in your past, I don't know. What makes you think you've been misread or misunderstood? Just because I don't think as well of you as you think I should? Ah well, I guess that is your besetting sin, and you were candid enough to admit it: pride. You haven't apologised. ("Sorry if" isn't an apology, as I'm sure you know.) But I don't feel you owe me an apology: I am not among the LGBT people you are hurting. Nor have you said anything new or different from anything other homophobic Christians have said about how they want to think well of themselves without actually changing their views. This is not hurtful to me personally: this is concerning with regard to the LGBT people who are close enough to you to be hurt by you.

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A different anonymous

January 02, 2013  11:16am

EdinburghEye, I have personally apologized for my own words, and I have tried to clarify myself the best I can. Whether you have misread me either intentionally, or simply because of the pain you have experienced in your past, I don't know. But I can't do anything about it, either way. I have done the best I can, and my conscience is clean. Any attempts to continue to clarify myself or correct the misreadings and misunderstandings will only exacerbate the situation. As I can do no more, I bid you now farewell, and Godspeed. I look forward to getting to know you better in God's kingdom real soon, without all this horrible sin getting in the way of us knowing each other fully, to paraphrase Paul, even as we have been fully known by God!

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EdinburghEye

January 02, 2013  5:16am

*ticks checkbox* Ah, Sheerahkahn, thank you. The kneejerk "Why won't you tolerate my intolerance!!!" argument. Let me refer you to the evangelical Christian rebuttal, and have done: As with the bit about the all-powerful God and the unliftable rock, the people citing the intolerant antinomy seem to have no idea that they're not really saying anything at all about tolerance or intolerance, but merely providing yet another illustration of the elasticity and limits of language. They're really just presenting another illustration of Russell's paradox, the set of all normal sets, which Bertrand Russell himself illustrated with the example of the barber above.

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sheerahkahn

January 01, 2013  12:02pm

"Happy new year to you. I did intend to offend you: I always slightly hope that an offended bigot who's honest/sincere may actually begin to question why he's so certain his bigotry against LGBT people is the will of God." I want you to know something that I've noticed in all your posts. But first, reread all your posts, I'll wait. .... ... .. . Notice a trend there? You throw bigot around a lot, and yet, but the very definition of the word, you, too, are the bigot. You throw hateful around a lot, too, and yet, by the very definition of the word, you are fill with hatred. So here is something I want you take away from this observation... you.are.no.different.than.the.people.you.are.accusing.of.bigotry.and.hatefulness. So, let me be the first to welcome you to being human. And I want you to know, it was not I who undermined your entire premise, it was you...being cogent of your argument is just as important as being sympathetic to your target. Neither of which you demonstrated. But thank you for confirming your humanity we do have that in common.

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EdinburghEye

December 31, 2012  3:13pm

I apologize if you were offended by my conviction that "homosexuality is inconsistent with the will of God." Be assured, however, that I am equally convicted that pride is also inconsistent with the will of God, and yet I am the most proud person I know. And there are many other aspects of my character that I recognize as inconsistent with the will of God. So by no means do I see myself as any better than you Are you married? Do you regard your marriage as outwith the will of God because you're "the most proud person you know" and so you ought not to have been allowed to marry in religion? Because if not, you're just being hypocritical about this. If marriage is denied to those who live "outwith the will of God", it's denied to all who do, not just to those you regard as your inferiors, safe to discriminate against. . If I really did believe that Christianity was not for gays, that would mean that it's not for me either! So why are you teaching most of your congregation to believe Christianity is not for gays? The demands of Christ are as harsh on me as they are on anyone else, and it is only in Christ and through his grace that I am able to bear them. So you have denied yourself marriage because you're sure that Christ would not want someone guilty of the sin of pride to marry? Ultimately, it is up to God's spirit to convict you as to whether you are right or wrong. And I trust that same spirit to convict me if *I* am the one who is wrong. That's a good point. But with regard to LGBT people, clearly you're not listening! And I don't believe God hates you. Not for a second!! God loves you infinitely more than either you or I could ever imagine. Then how can you have the arrogant effrontery to think that God finds my sexual orientation "inconsistent with his will" and dare to discriminate? Why do you set yourself up to be better than God? She paused for a few moments. She answered with a shaky voice, "By many, yes. I would even say by most. But not by you. And not by a few others who matter to us. And that's why we keep coming back." What a terrible indictment for you as a pastor, to know that you have taught most of your congregation to hate and exclude this poor woman. How horrible for her, too, to have to put up with this church that you lead in bigotry just because it's better than nothing and not as bad as it could be. I'm so sorry for her, and so sorry that you don't care enough to stop listening to your own anti-gay bigotry. You see, I love these people with all my heart. Because at the end of the day, as Sheerahkahn said, that is what they are–people. I don't see them as gay or lesbian. I don't see them as inferior to me or as greater sinners than I am. I see them simply as people, people that God has placed in my life so that I can love them and serve them. By teaching the congregation - most of them - to exclude LGBT people? That's how you "love and serve" them? And again, your insistance that you don't see them as greater sinners is made a hypocritical lie by your insistance that you're entitled to judge them and exclude them from marriage as inferior to you. But also that those who are homosexual who *do* know me and my ministry, would heartily disagree with your evaluation of me as a person. And that's enough for me. I didn't hear hearty disagreement in that woman's voice or in your description of her evaluation of you as a pastor. I appreciate your honesty, but she's telling you that you're a failure. Note also - I don't know how large your congregation is - that the most of the congregation whom you've taught to regard this woman as their inferior, probably have children. Some of those children will be LGBT. You are teaching your congregation to be hateful and exclusive towards their children. So, happy new year, Eye. Forgive me for having offended you. It was never my intention to have done so, and I am grieved to know that I did do so. I wish you the best. Happy new year to you. I did int

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