Ur Video: Dave Kraft on Celebrity Pastors
We should be measuring community impact rather than the size of our audience.

Displaying 1–7 of 7 comments


March 05, 2012  7:26am

I'm a business guy. My last office space was rented to me by a couple who were the chief fund raisers for a major missionary organization. He shared something with me that really changed my outlook of how we do business (church) in the states..... Stewardship for the mission organization is this: How many dollars are spent per baptism. In Cuba it was like in the single digits or less (i.e. $1/1 baptism). In North America - it was like 5 or 6 digits per baptism. (i.e. $40,000/1 baptism) My numbers are not exactly accurate - I didn't get that exactly - but there was a staggering disparity - like my examples suggest. The question that comes out of all of this is: Are you doing kingdom work, or are you just having a good time? The conclusion I came up with was this: Saul costs a whole lot of money and in the end doesn't yield much for eternity. The numbers really bring this passage home: "And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do." Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plough his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us." (1Sa 8:7-19 NIV)

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John Bassett

March 03, 2012  7:30am

It's hard to generally get excited by denominationalism, but it does seem like the worst excesses of this "celebrity pastor" culture come from churches which either have no denominational affiliation or it is weak and not emphasized. It seems like not only does being part of a larger group provide a necessary check, but it gives some identity to the community larger than being the reflectional of a single person.

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Steve Martin

March 03, 2012  12:10am

"We should be measuring community impact rather than the size of our audience." Measure community impact? How about just preaching the law and the gospel, and serving in whatever way we see fit...and leaving all the measuring up to the Lord?

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March 02, 2012  11:01am

I'm so sad to read of this dynamic in the Mars Hill communities (pointed out and linked to by some commenters here). This is just one of the more egregious examples of how too often modern self-described "Bible-believing" Christians don't really trust the power of God's love and wisdom and the intervention of His Holy Spirit through prayer, but instead rely on human manipulation (in this case, strong-armed "disciplinary" tactics) to do "God's work" for Him!

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March 01, 2012  7:02pm

LOL Talk about "the pot calling the kettle black"! Kraft is part of the Driscoll/Mars Hill Empire. He is complicit in the celebrity-driven empire's lording over and harsh treatment of the flock: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/140996563.html?tab=video

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February 29, 2012  6:20pm

I agree whole-heartedly with what Dave Kraft is saying. But I'm confounded by the fact that he is pastoring at the church which is probably the single-biggest perpetrator of what he's condemning. Let's take a look: * celebrity pastors: Driscoll's ego is so big, he cannot stop talking about himself. Every interview of him, he ends up talking about himself, his accomplishments, the books he's read... Every picture of him has a smug, self-sufficient look on his face. * Pastors who write a lot of books, put out a lot of conferences so they can promote their own name * Pastors whose names are household names * Numbers counting: no church counts numbers like Mars Hill. I've never heard an interview or sermon of Driscoll's where he doesn't talk about the number of books he's read, number of downloads his site has, or how long his sermons last * Churches that don't impact the community: Mars Hill Churches are well known for being incredibly insular. They serve themselves, but don't do much for the rest of the community

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February 29, 2012  3:36pm

The celebrity system (one man dominates the gathering of believers-does 99% of the personal expression of truth to the body) can tweak and hype any statistic to justify itself as godly, even community impact. Why are the saints expected to make a personal expression impact on their community, but zero personal expression impact on the worship hour?

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