Phil Vischer knows a lot about God's gifts. As a co-creator (with Mike Nawrocki) of the popular VeggieTales video series, Vischer used his vivid imagination and quirky storytelling to launch what would become the best-selling Christian videos of all time. He had technological savvy, too. In 1994, more than a year before Pixar's Toy Story, VeggieTales was breaking new ground with 3-D computer animation.

Perhaps Vischer's greatest gift, though, was his ability to combine childlike silliness with biblical values. As the voice of Bob the Tomato, Vischer told millions of kids "God made you special, and He loves you very much," and the kids believed.

Then in 2003 Vischer's company, Big Idea, filed for bankruptcy after a spate of financial problems. Big Idea and its debts were sold to the New York-based Classic Media, and its headquarters moved from Chicago to Nashville. Mike Nawrocki and other Big Idea staffers made the move, but Vischer's day-to-day involvement with his beloved Veggies came to a sad end (he now travels to Nashville twice a month to do voice work for the videos).

In VeggieTales: Lord of the Beans, the first episode written by Vischer since the change in Big Idea's ownership, Junior Asparagus plays Toto Baggypants, a young Flobbit, who must discover the true purpose of a magical bean he inherited. It's a witty spoof of The Lord of the Rings, with a message about using the gifts God gives us.

Today's Christian recently spoke to Vischer and Nawrocki (a.k.a. Larry Cucumber) about this latest installment of VeggieTales and the painful lessons they've learned about using the gifts God gave them.

What was your inspiration for Lord of the Beans?

Phil: My kids are now 14, 10, and 8. And they're not as excited about VeggieTales as they used to be. But they love The Lord of the Rings movies. They love the drama and the depth of those worlds that J. R. R. Tolkien created. I discovered that some of our more rabid VeggieTales fans—ex-high school kids and college kids—were also rabid Lord of the Rings fans. The Christian values were so strong in The Lord of the Rings films that it set them apart from the typical action movies. So I thought it would be fun to encourage those values and to take Tolkien's world and populate it with veggies.

Was it difficult to make the story relevant to 4- and 5-year-olds?

Phil Vischer

Phil: Yes, that's why I really had to look into the core teaching of the Rings. It's one thing to say "Look at this great world full of Christian archetypes that Tolkien crafted" and to throw vegetables into it, but we also had to figure out what the lesson should be. The Lord of the Rings has lots of lessons and themes, but in VeggieTales we need just one. Since we're dealing with younger kids, we wanted them to walk away with one little nugget that they can put in their hearts and carry around.

So I started focusing on the idea of the gifts that we're given and what we do with them. Then I started looking at the responsibility this involves. You see it in the movies where Frodo has this ring, but unlike everyone else, he doesn't want to use it for his own benefit. That was the most inspiring theme for me, because if God is giving us gifts, what are they for? The world tells you it's all about making yourself rich or famous. Our kids are drenched in those kinds of messages. So I wanted to write a story that would subvert that and turn it upside down.

So instead of a ring, you have a bean?

Phil: That's right. Toto Baggypants is given this amazing gift—a bean that can give you virtually anything you want. But Toto doesn't want to use it until he knows what it's for. And in the end, he realizes that God wants to use our gifts for the benefit of others. That's why He gives them to us.

For many of your older fans, the big question will be: Is there a Silly Song in this episode?

Mike: There is a Silly Song, and it's related to the theme of the show, which is the first time we've ever done that. It's "Silly Songs with Elves."

What is your relationship like with Big Idea's new owner, Classic Media? Have they shown any desire to take the series in a different direction?

Mike: I'm involved with development and directing on a day-by-day basis, and Classic Media hasn't pressured us to do anything different. They let us do what we have always done. I think they want us to continue with the approach that has made VeggieTales successful.

Beyond moving the Big Idea offices to Tennessee from Illinois, how are things different for you guys?

Mike: Well, besides being warmer in the winter, I think the biggest difference is that we don't have our own animation staff anymore. In Chicago, we did our animation in-house. Now we work with a studio up in Toronto, and we've slowly been building the videos back up to the quality that we had with our original staff.

Building them back up? So you think there was a drop off in quality?

Phil: Nothing that most people, except for our most rabid fans, would recognize.

Mike: We spent many years developing our animation style and how the characters' personalities come through. Our old animation team created a book about two-inches thick on how to animate VeggieTales characters.

Phil: We had it all documented, so that when we went to work with this new company, it would just be a matter of ingraining that style and technique into them, and saying this is how our characters are supposed to be.

How did the transition affect you and the staff emotionally?

Mike: It was extremely hard, because there was so much that we lost and so many people that we had to say goodbye to. And for me, leaving Chicago was hard. I had lived there 18 years. My wife has close family ties there.

On the positive side, I think for the people that remained through the transition, there was a kind of camaraderie of going through the fire together. As we came out on the other end in Nashville, we were really welcomed in the community. The governor even came out to greet us.

Phil, you've shared before about the stress and anguish that you went through before finally selling Big Idea. How are you today?

Mike Nawrocki

Phil: I'm in a really good place. I've come a long way in the last two years, and I'm still sorting some of it out. God showed me a lot of things. I learned a ton about myself. I learned a ton about God and how I was misplacing some of my ambition, even though I was trying to serve God. But He loved me so much that He was willing to let that all fall away. I've had to just let it all go, so that I could focus on Him alone.

When Big Idea moved, I was left with about a year to just focus on God. And that's exactly what I needed to do.

I'm breathing easier now because I don't have to worry about 200 mouths to feed and lawyers and an HR department and people worrying about their 401(k)s. Those kinds of things sucked up so much of the time that I could've been using to exercise the real gifts God gave me.

I don't think God wanted me to be buried in one thing as deeply as I was, where there was no time to think of anything new. And I just wasn't ready to see it. So it was kind of an Abraham and Isaac situation. I had to be willing to sacrifice my child.

Was it possible for it not to have happened that way? Could you have done anything differently that might have saved Big Idea from bankruptcy?

Phil: It was possible. There was a specific fork in the road where I made some decisions that made it almost inevitable that I would fail. It's sad, but I was really vain. But God has used even that. I've learned firsthand that every mistake you make, God can redeem.

I've been sharing my testimony at different places, and I've had people come up to me and say, "Has it ever occurred to you that God may do more with your failure than with your success?" And I believe that. There have been 40-year-old guys who just lost businesses or experienced some other failure who have heard me tell my story, and they've come up to me afterward with tears in their eyes telling me that was exactly what they needed to hear. So God has used it.

Phil, are you exclusively committed to VeggieTales projects now, or will you be doing other things as well?

Phil: I'm starting to develop some new stuff. I just hired two people to help me with non-Veggie ideas, and I've started a media company called Jellyfish to produce family-oriented books, films, and videos. Over the next year, I'm trying to figure out what else God wants me to do. Some of those things may be with Big Idea; some of them may not.

Bob and Larry are still together on the screen, but how has your real-life friendship fared through all of these changes?

Mike: In my mind, it's growing and it's getting stronger. In the beginning, we were just friends. Then we started Big Idea, and as it got bigger the dynamics changed because Phil was my friend, but he was also my boss.

Phil: Now, we're just back to being best friends. We don't go bowling together as much as we used to, but now when we do see each other it's much more meaningful.

To order VeggieTales: Lord of the Beans, click here.

Copyright © 2005 by the author or Christianity Today International/Today's Christian magazine.

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