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Crab Grass

April 12, 2013  12:15am

@ Rachel Simko said, "postmodern-tendency for people... to insist that the Bible "doesn't explicitly say sex outside marriage is a sin." || Thank you for mentioning that, I've seen that too time again by Non Christians and more theologically liberal Christians on blogs. They like to pretend that the Bible does not condemn sex outside of marriage, and they really dislike the word "fornication." I think this phenomenon is an over-reaction to the patriarchy guys and the extreme sexism and double standards in much of conservative Christianity, which I don't like either. But just because some self professing male Christians teach obnoxious things about females and sexuality and cling to double standards doesn't mean women should then run around claiming the Bible has lax, to no, standards about sexual behavior for males and females.

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Crab Grass

April 12, 2013  12:07am

@ Anne Acker. I am a 40+ year old female Christian virgin, but sadly, it's not just secular culture who mock and make fun of older virgins, it happens among Christians too, and they make insulting assumptions, such as you must be homosexual, even though you are not. BTW, married people engage in sexual sin - a staggering number of married Christian men have admitted to being addicted to dirty magazines and web sites, and some Christian married women have confessed to they do as well. Some married Christians have affairs and see prostitutes as well, but preachers never offer sexual purity sermons to the married couples, only the singles - the rest of the time they ignore singles. It's condescending and hypocritical.

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Crab Grass

April 11, 2013  11:59pm

Hmm, it's articles such as this one - decrying the tendency of some churches to make virginity into a "holy grail" and that have an emphasis on "sexual purity"- to make me wonder why I bother remaining a virgin at 40+ years of age? (I've never married and was waiting for marriage to have sex.) I actually see the opposite in Christian culture these days: an over-emphasis on the thinking, "we expect you will have sex outside of marriage, nobody can remain a virgin past age 30, so when you do have sex outside of marriage, and we know you will, that's perfectly fine, because God is happy to forgive sexual sin." I see no reason to remain celibate, considering both those views. Nobody, certainly not Christians, respects or expects Christians to remain virgins into their 40s and older, or respect those who have accomplished it.

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Julia W.

February 10, 2013  4:44pm

I found the point of this article wandered a bit for me. The majority of the piece is about the church making virginity an idol, which I agree is not a good thing. The author concludes, however, by talking about the regret she feels from the way she lost her virginity and not wanting her daughter to experience that. Maybe this is why many churches seem to make a big deal about virginity, because often people do have regret over becoming sexually active prior to marriage. This should be an important part of ministry to middle and high school students who are living in a culture of sexual promiscuity. I am part of a church that barely mentions virginity or chastity, and I feel it does a disservice for mature Christians to avoid the issue, to those young people who are making those choices. They should know what God's word says about sex and God's plan for it within a marriage relationship, whether men and women are virgins or not.

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Anne Acker

February 08, 2013  7:51pm

Pat, Is there a passage about pre-marital sex in the Bible where it is considered a good thing? On what basis would we say then that it is "not cut and dry?" Mar komus: The church may prize virginity, but pop culture promulgates something I call The Myth of the Forty-Year-Old Virgin. It's the stereotype of virgins as losers, rejects and nerds who can't get a date. I know because I bought into the put-down and let the enemy shame me for making good choices. Maybe that's not what you meant by "not marriage material," but don't let the enemy jerk your chain. Just because you were called to singleness doesn't mean you wouldn't have been a great spouse for someone. The problem is that the world puts sex and sexuality on such a pedestal that it is sometimes hard for Christians to spot the lie that sex is the most important thing in the world. It is not, nor are we merely the sum of our biology. I get to be about so much more than my sexuality regardless of my choices.

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Hannah Anderson

February 08, 2013  9:22am

Thanks for this piece--you successfully navigated the extremes of idolizing virginity and minimizing sexual purity. Because really, the focus shouldn't be on our specific sexual history at all but on Christ and His grace. A true understanding of the Gospel will never minimize sin OR make it greater than redemption. Great work!

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Rachel Stephan Simko

February 07, 2013  9:42pm

Unfortunately, I see the church going in two opposite directions on this issue: one is idolatry of virginity, which you addressed here; the other direction is the postmodern-tendency for people (especially, I've found, in my generation) to insist that the Bible "doesn't explicitly say sex outside marriage is a sin." Both are dangerous and sad, and tell a different story than the Gospel. (evenonesparrow.blogspot.com)

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mar komus

February 07, 2013  4:49pm

40th year of life. Single, never married. Virgin. Bad example, though, because I'm not "marriage material"

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John Holmes

February 06, 2013  6:33pm

As we are all equal before God, the emphasis on female virginity seems to me to be some what out of step with that teaching. I find it interesting that during Victorians times in London, and similar periods in the USA, the number of prostitutes increased dramatically. Time to drop such gender based ideas and get real. Sexuality is a major driver in humans, funny about that, we would not exist with out it, so good open discussion and teaching about the role of sex both the mechanics and much more, the role of, in our relationships is needed. Consider the relative numbers of teenage pregnancies/abortions in Holland cf the USA, perhaps 10% of the other. Time to toss out any residual ideas that sex is only for procreation and that it is dirty etc. Yet also maintain the teaching re fornication as the consequences are as outlined above, make loyal marriages / good child rearing much more difficult.

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Gina Dalfonzo

February 06, 2013  3:31pm

A thoughtful, well-balanced contribution to the discussion. Thanks, Jen!

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Karen Smith

February 06, 2013  2:58pm

Male hormones have little or nothing to do with it. (Speaking from experience here, both as a transwoman and as someone married to a woman with PCOS - which is characterized by extra male hormones). What does have something to do with it is people that excuse the bad behavior of men and boys as a result of their biological functions. Women struggle with the same issues; they just tend to have a different focus. (By the way - in my view there is no excuse for cheating on a spouse. None. No ifs, ands, or buts. And none of that "technical virginity" stuff, or saying "it's just heavy petting"... NO EXCUSES.)

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editor UNITYINCHRIST.COM

February 06, 2013  2:38pm

Jen has written a very good article, and has shown in just another way how some churches have gone "legalistic", creating a yardstick religion in the area of virginity. And for you guys who may be pounding on this "purity" drum, try having a sexually pure mind for 24 hours without one slip-up. Maybe some of you can (maybe you have NMH--no male hormones), but for most, it is a constant struggle, which in the end Jesus will help us win. Good article, Jen.

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Christine Thomas

February 06, 2013  1:32pm

I find the last part of this article especially sad. There is no evidence, real or imagined, that losing one's virginity at 15 (or any age) makes a person more likely to seek illicit sex after marriage. We seek illicit sex because it is powerful and we are broken. Virginity is no indicator for successful marriage. It's for making parents of teenagers happy. Is sex powerful? Of course. Does having sex before marriage doom a person to endless regret and pain? Of course not! That would be to deny the power of Christ's forgiveness and grace...which is more powerful than sex! There are loving marriages all over the place made up of broken people who have experienced the grace of God. Forgiveness is tough sometimes but it's the way of heart cleaning that makes all the differences. Holding on to past experiences...well, it just doesn't get much done.

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JANET W

February 06, 2013  12:57pm

Vic, So a man "confesses" his sin of fornication/lust to his wife how many hundreds/thousands of times over the course of a marriage without doing anything to actually stop it? -- That's where the shrug and half nod come in -- "It's a sin -- but everybody sins. *wink*" --- it's that attitude that leaves men trapped in lust/fornication cycles and leaves their wives with the option of turning a blind eye or divorcing. Of course, no christian man is going to stand up and say amidst his fellow christian men that lust/fornication are a-ok. But how many of those same men are looking at pornography or indulging in sexual fantasy (objectifying the women around them) on a regular basis? LOTS. Maybe even most.

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Pat smith

February 06, 2013  12:57pm

"When someone has sex outside of marriage, she corrupts herself, even her sexual DNA." Are you serious? Come on. That is some fear mongering right there if I ever saw it. It is simply untrue. Any shame people feel from pre-martial sex is cultural - dumped upon them from fellow Christians. There are plenty of wonderful Christians who realize the Bible's words about "purity" does not necessarily mean not having pre-marital sex. It's not cut & dry.

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Cheryl Okimoto

February 06, 2013  12:54pm

@Karen, chastity isn't just refraining from sex, which is celebacy. Chastity is sexual purity. If you're married and want to be sexually pure, accoring to the Bible (1 Cor 7:1-5 is especially clear on this), you WILL be having sex with your spouse. A marrried celebate is not chaste, not sexually pure. (Unless of course there is a physical issue that prevents you from having sex, but that's a different issue. And you should still give EACH OTHER sexual satisfaction to whatever extent you can.)

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JANET W

February 06, 2013  12:49pm

Karen, Being chaste within marriage is right and proper. We should reserve our sexual beings for our spouse within marriage. Lust, fornication, and immodesty are fruits of unchasity. Why do we tell people to leave their chastity behind once they are married? If we put as much emphasis on being pure and chaste within marriage, we'd have a lot fewer divorces. Adultery/fornication is a huge contributor to divorce and marital discord. Pornography is a huge issue for married men (and women). Sex doesn't become some sort of free-for-all once your married, where we let our "natural man" rule us and everything goes.

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Cheryl Okimoto

February 06, 2013  12:43pm

Thank you for broaching this tough subject. I find it interesting that among American evangelicals the word "purity" has become synonymous with “virginity,” hence the “second virginity” movement. It is, when you think about it, a rather ridiculous concept. But purity includes much more than virginity. Many a young person who is a technical virgin isn’t sexually pure because he or she has done everything except that final act. Janet’s right about our need to talk about chastity in marriage, and we’ll help that discussion a lot by talking more about chastity before marriage. If we put the emphasis on chastity instead of virginity, we have something we can talk about. Chastity can be regained if lost. Virginity can never be regained. As a corollary, we need to start including every aspect of life in the “purity” discussion. If you’re sexually pure but verbally vile, in God’s eyes you aren’t pure! Most Christians will someday lose their virginity, so we may as well aim for total purity.

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Vic Christian

February 06, 2013  12:34pm

All, Rather than talk about what both men and women are doing is right or wrong - why not look at what the Lord says? Fornication outside of marriage is sin - period! Lusting after a person is sin - period! That said - I guess if I was at the point of getting married I would confess any fornication to my wife-to-be, and I would expect her to do the same. Christ forgives all repentant sinners that turn to Him - no exceptions. If Christ forgives - how can I condemn or hold a confessed and forgiven sin against my spouse. As for men thinking different about this then women, I do not agree. I do not know of any men in my Christian circles that feels this should be any different for women or men. If the men in your circle do - then you may be in the wrong group.

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Karen Smith

February 06, 2013  12:29pm

@Janet W - Chastity, as generally defined, has little to no place within marriage. Sex within marriage is a good thing; it forms closer bonds, has proven physical benefits, and is one thing that couples share with one another and NOBODY else.

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JANET W

February 06, 2013  9:48am

Good words. I can’t help but think of the dichotomy of what is taught to men and women about women’s sexuality versus what men and women are taught about men’s sexuality within Christianity. Female virginity is held up as the Holy Grail by everyone. Male virginity is given an approving nod by almost everyone. Then, after marriage, women are to remain faithful and be SUBMISSIVE. Men are given leave to lust, fantasize, and view pornography – I mean, sure, no one thinks it’s a good thing that husbands are doing these things, but hey, they’re men, so we have to give them a break, right. This has long been the “norm” in CHRISTIAN circles and is becoming even more normative in today’s culture. Do you have any idea how many times on CHRISTIAN forums, I’ve read men write about how pornography isn’t really adultery? And you, know, men are visual, so ….. A larger discussion needs to be had about CHASTITY within marriage.

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