Brenda, It's never too late to comment on this discussion: we're just beginning. Your freeing experiences at church are beautiful - and ones I want for other women. How good to know churches like this do indeed exist. But the truth is, many women do not have the privilege of flourishing in a church where the whole of Scripture is being lived out. How often does a church staff discuss the issue of egalitarianism vs a complementarianism view among its congregants? Who are the gatekeepers in our Christian communities who will courageously place this issue on their agendas? A few weeks ago, I was speaking at a conference when a younger woman spoke with me privately. She wanted to make me aware that moments before I spoke on the biblical story of Abigail, I said, "You probably already know this familiar story of Abigail . . ." She then told me, "Pam, I hadn't heard of most stories you pointed to this weekend." We need environments to re-tell the whole of Scripture.

I'm 51, and this piece was God-timed, as I've sensed an expanding relational canyon between me and younger Christian women. Lately I've ventured way out of my comfort zone to help in the church nursery. Knowing names/personalities of their precious babes is helping provide a connection point. Beyond that, we'll see how God leads me to avail myself. I'm a bit disappointed in all the philosophizing this topic inspired. Seems to underscore the point of it: we're allowing an us-and-them mentality to develop. I agree with some of the younger women who see ladies at my age as too busy/too selfish to offer a hand up. Sadly, I've no doubt come across that way myself. I admit, it's partly out of fear--out of the intimidation Pam refers to. For now, I feel less comfortable focusing on providing spiritual instruction than on first being better positioned to offer encouragement. I'm wondering if mentoring relationships aren't best developed organically, beginning with a simple heart connect.

I agree that the gap may be not only generational but theological/spiritual. At least twice in His Word, the Lord speaks of a generation not in the sense of a group of people all born within a certain number of years, but in the sense of their view of God, and how that affects their worldview (ref. Proverbs 30 and Acts 2). We are seeing this today borne out not only in individual churches, but also in entire denominations. Some have continued in Biblical faith, while some are wavering, and some have even departed into full-blown apostasy. Christ Jesus prophesied all this would happen, and the apostles echoed His warnings.

Pam, it may be too late to contribute to this discussion, but there's an issue no one has mentioned yet. In congregations where women experience a major generation gap, what is the attitude toward women in leadership? Your statements about leadership and comments from younger women that they don't want to be taught about makeup and raising children suggests that the gap may be not only generational but theological. Young women who are already leaders may find it difficult to connect with older women who believe that women should be subordinate to men, and churches that teach subordination may not be the most helpful environment for the growth of these young women. I'm a professional woman well over 40 in an egalitarian evangelical church, and I'm blessed to have strong relationships with some of the younger women in our congregation.

Julie W - Your comments help this conversation move in a good direction. What is it exactly that women in the older generation are doing/saying/acting that send the "I'm too busy" message? Can you comment on the "visible self-centeredness?" Thanks for engaging in this discussion!

Janet W, Rabbi might be a better term since it speaks more to the lifestyle issue you are concerned about (and should be concerned about). Choosing wisely is godly advice for sure.

Wow, what a great discussion! I believe, where we can all fall short, younger or older, is where we have bought into the ideals of the culture, rather than being genuine followers of Christ. Do we want to please and impress man first or do we FIRST seek the Kingdom and LIVE what Christ teaches? LOVE is the key ingredient ~ drop our agenda and reach out in love to other women. His love IS shed abroad in our hearts!

Although I am not so young anymore, I still feel the need for wise guidance and prayer from older Godly women who really know the Word of God (both written and Living), who are humble, gentle, and gracious, speaking the truth in love, women who truly care about me as a person because the One who died for me and ever intercedes for me fills and directs their lives. Unfortunately, the world tells us that, regardless of age, we should be proud and 'self'-confident (though the Lord tells us just the opposite.) This is the message that girls now absorb into their spirits from a very young age, and it can be very difficult for them to humble themselves and admit they don't know it all, don't have it all together, but really do need insight and wisdom from women who've lived much longer than they, in the fear (reverence, worship) of God.

Perhaps let's 'disciple/mentor' others by praying for them meaningfully first. To do so, we have to 'know' them and from knowing them, we can better relate with them. And the motivation to do this should be because we love the Lord and His love constrains us to do it. I find it 'exhausting' to relate to others because I much prefer my own company but because the Lord has commanded we disciple others, I have to trust that He'll keep providing the wisdom, empathy and insight to do so.

So if the younger generation is to humbly sit at the knee of a member of the older generation, I'd suggest that they think carefully about who they choose as their "sensai" -- Which puts the onus on the older generation to live and conduct themselves in such a way that someone would choose to substantially learn from them as "grasshopper". Being older doesn't necessarily mean that one is spiritually mature.

Hi Pam, Yes, listening and understanding is key to mentoring anyone I agree. The issue is that much of the younger generation (not all of course, we are speaking in broad brush strokes...) expects everyone else to not only listen but give instant equality of thought to everything they say or think. All one needs to do is llook at FaceBook, Tumblr, Reddit, etc and you see people that assume that you should be interested in everything they think and do and that it is all just as valid and serious as experience from many years. Elders (as in those who have more experience and have been walking longer) are said to be those that the younger/inexperienced are to listen to and learn from throughout the Scriptures.This is NOT to say that elders' egos are healthy or to be stroked (God speaks about that as well) but the posture of the one to be mentored is one of a learner (which is exactly what the Greek for 'disciple' [mentor being a more modern term for disciple] means literally).

I can identify with women in both seasons of life. I grew up with a cold and neglectful mother whose career always took first place in her life. She kept an immaculate house but what little interaction there was, was not nurturing. She was active in church, so I grew up thinking of her as the model Christian woman. When I became a believer as a young adult who had left that home, I had to start afresh, learning what it means to be a woman whose spirit, soul, and priorities are completely shaped by the Lord, not the dreams and expectations the world says we should have. Romans 12:1-2 was vital to me in this process, as was all of God's Word. Some of my early mentors were authors like Corrie ten Boom, Catherine Marshall and Elisabeth Elliot. When I married, my MIL taught me by example what it means to have (and be) a loving, kind, nurturing mother. A weekly women's Bible study also enabled me to have wonderful fellowship with older women who truly cared and prayed for me. I am grateful.

The gulf I have noticed at my church between younger and older women is very evident, so I appreciated this article. My personal sense, being a woman under 30, is that the 40+ women in my church would not have the time to mentor me because they are too busy with their careers, own families, homes and other commitments. While these may be very reasonable excuses, it is still unfortunate there is not the opportunity for that connection to occur. Maybe once I have children I will appreciate more the ways these women are limited. But I hope for myself, I will still find ways to invest in younger Christian woman when I am in that stage of life. Others have commented the younger generation seems selfish, but I would argue there is very visible self-centeredness in the older generation as well. Both groups have to have a greater willingness and curiosity to engage with women who are not in their same stage of life. Great discussion on this subject.

The most loving thing we could do for one another in reading these comments is to listen to the pain being expressed - spoken and unspoken. There's a distance between us because we aren't listening at the deeper level. Setting aside statistics, generational names, marital roles and professions - it's time to not see any human being as a project or an image and return to the basics of knowing God. Sobering as it may be - as the generations of women relate to one another in humility then, I believe, the Church can reopen for business for all women.

Jim, Hannah and Vida ~ Thought provoking comments. Perhaps we are facing a younger generation characterized by narcissism - new books and research support this. But how does that change Christ's pursuit of them? Could we discuss new ways to minister in spite of these obstacles? Hannah's insight about a lack of listening and learning is spot on! This makes me ask myself if what I'm receiving on the inside from Christ is somehow being expressed? Am I saying things worth listening to?

Thanks Heather, I agree with your comments. As a 30 something, I can tell you that my generation has felt demeaned by well-intentioned older ladies. For example, after graduating from college, many people asked me if I worked full time. When I responded yes, the reply was usually "oh that's nice, that will keep you busy until you start having kids." My husband and I are unable to have children, but even if we were, the idea that a career is just something to keep women "busy" is offensive. Let's acknowledge that differences are not necessarily bad, and that many generational differences are not un-Christian, just different.

I very much agree with what Janet W wrote. And I would add to it: So often older women seem to want to mentor younger ones in the "status quo" of unexamined Christian culture. This extends to HOW they want to pursue a relationship with younger people - often they pigeonhole the younger woman about how she needs to be "fixed" or "delivered" (or read: the ways she is not exactly like them) and the relationship is so often condescending, formulaic, and intrusive towards the younger person, white at the same time, "I have you at arms length" on the part of the older. I don't want lessons in how I need to wear heavy makeup, or not show emotions in authentic ways, or pray using someone else's method and voice. I have been blessed to know a couple older women who are vulnerable, creative, and ECCENTRIC, deep thinkers, and not just living life by a rote female script. None of them have wanted to mentor me, and consequently I have had amazing friendships with them and learned a lot.

From the tone of some of the responses, it seems that the mentoring relationship isn't even about helping a young woman grow spiritually, but more about affirming an older woman's "status" as a spiritual leader. Things like "pride" and "choosing to abandon one's core callings"? I suspect that it's sentiments like this that are what's driving our young women away. Telling them what their "core calling" is, really? Calling them Prideful because they seem too busy to find an older woman (any older christian woman will do, evidentially) to mentor them spiritually. Is this just a call for young women to esteem their elders under the guise of "mentoring"? Who's serving who, in this scenario? I think that the overall tone of the comments is one which, if played out in real life as words/actions, would drive younger women away. Sometimes what I want is a real talk about religion, the Bible, God -- not some "this is how to please your husband and raise your kids."

I cannot endure many more of these Christian articles decrying the status of younger Christians. Granted, this one stands out a bit more by lumping in the 30-somethings, where-as usually, most Christians fret over the 20-somethings only. I'm in my early 40s still and am a Christian. I have never married or had children. Until and unless the evangelical and Baptist churches start acknowledging that not all Christian women marry and have kids by the time they are 30 or 35, and until they begin addressing our needs, I don't care about the Christians under the age of 40. As it stands now, most churches endlessly harp on the 1950s American ideal of "marriage and children." They wring their hands in concern that 20 somethings no longer attend church. Where is the concern for never married Christians past the age of 35? Or for the divorced or widowed? It's not there, yet I am constantly approached by Christian publications and TV hosts to be concerned for the under -35 age group.

OK, I'm a 45 year-old man so maybe my thoughts do not matter on this matter but, Hannah seems to hit the crux of the problem as it is expressed. Women under 40 (just like males under 40) are self-centered and work from a worldview that it is about me, what I think and that my opinion is just as if not more important than all others. It is the sign of the oldest sin, pride. Eve and Adam expressed it in the Garden and we are expressing it now far more than just a generation ago due to life revolving around my wants and desires and the democratization of the church. Mentoring only happens when the one being mentored (or maybe discipled would be better?) assumes a posture of humility and becomes teachable. OF course, the mentor also needs to be humble and seek to model Jesus and not make it about herself.

Hannah Anderson nailed it with her comments of her "generation demanding not only to be heard but to be followed--we are disrespectful.... routinely tell them where they got it wrong..." Yet, it is the SAME problem I had as a teen and young adult, and it is the SAME problem Eve had in the Garden. It's called rebellion. Just as the serpent enlightened Eve with "better" choices, we are enlightened- now, BOMBARDED with beautifully wrapped godless values through music, media, academia, and popular opinion to gain our allegiance. The enemy is RELENTLESS in its pursuit of our minds and hearts. And we are POWERLESS without understanding our authentic femininity as God ordained, not as the world says it should be. And then we are left wanting- wondering why we feel so empty, unfulfilled, and alone. Yes mentorship is needed- for our own daughters first, and then to those daughters who choose to abandon their core callings for what the world promises to be "better". Let us show them God's BEST.

Janet, I admit I didn't do a great job writing about the why of younger women needing older women. Any chance you've read Christian Smith's books on the younger generation? His findings are sobering. High percentages of young people emerge into adulthood without a stable family as a foundation. In an ideal world, a mother would meet some of those needs. However, many young women aren't close to their mothers. Second, the young women I interviewed said hands down they need and want a relationship with an older Christian woman to grow spiritually. Actually, that surprised me! Even with their independence and good jobs, they admit a secret need to talk about their faith. Don't you think the myth of the Superwoman is over? I love your candor - perhaps an older woman might find a relationship with you encouraging her in HER faith - it's mutual. One question I have for you is what does "spiritually-minded" look like to you?

As a woman who falls in the "younger woman" age bracket but whose husband pastors a church where the female population is predominantly "older women," I appreciate your tackling this subject. And yet, if I'm honest, I feel that much of the disconnect isn't simply from the older generation. My generation demands not only to be heard but to be followed--we are disrespectful of our parents' and grandparents' perspectives and routinely tell them where they got it wrong via our blogs and by storming away from church. No doubt there are things that the older generation can fix, but I find that as young people, we are not quick to hear and slow to speak. True spirituality is expressed by listening to our elders and learning from them--not expecting them to hear us first. And I can't help but wonder how much of this is a uniquely western problem of a generation who can easily be self-absorbed and dismissive of the sacrifices and experiences of previous generations.

Melanie, Somehow the term, "mentor" has become misunderstood in the world of Christian women. It's used in the business world all the time - a mentor doesn't have to be ten or 20 years older - just ahead in one way or another. Suddenly, when we say the word, "mentor" in our relationship to other women, we imagine an older woman. Don't you think it's time for such an image to come down and be replaced with what's real? Your honest question about finding the space in your full life is one I ponder every day. The women I interviewed confessed they observe us and think we are too busy to spend time with them. As I said earlier, it goes both ways. My question back to you is what's the best structured atmosphere for intimate relationships to exist? What commitments do we already have that would foster face to face encounters? Your idea of finding value in a shared activity is what sounds real to me! Just inviting a younger woman into the life you lead makes her feel close to you.

I'm 47, haven't married yet, no children, employed... I see potential in young girls, girls, and young women to follow the same paths I followed at their age. I have no problem with sharing my journey, as painful as it's been, in hopes it will help them make different choices and avoid pain and years of healing. There seems to be an abundance of married women who counsel single women on how to be single, but they also assume these single women will be married before they turn 30...what about how to be single in your 30's...40's...50's... When I was in my 20s and saw the 30 and 40-something single women in my church - void of husbands and children - I felt a panic rise in me - I did NOT want to be them, which was single. Now, I am one of them. I hope to not always be an single woman, but I can certainly share what I've learned along the way. There are things I never thought I'd have to consider in my life, and have had to let go - sometimes grieving, other times rejoicing.

Cheryl, You are absolutely correct! No relationship is one-sided. The young women I interviewed admit to living over-scheduled lives. But they also say they want the relationship. Recently, I invited a group of 12-15 young women to meet once a month for the purpose of discussing their spiritual lives. In the beginning I pushed more than they were comfortable with; however, now they are pursuing this time. If a younger woman is convinced you are after a relationship with her where transparency and truth collide, she will respond eventually. Thanks for sharing.

I guess I'm wondering what "direction and guidance" we're planning on offering younger women? I don't fall into the over 40 category, and I don't know that I'm in a position to be mentored by a woman just because we're both women. Why am I supposed to see advice from another woman just because she's older? I just don't get it. Perhaps because I'm in the middle -- not yet 40 and not just starting out. Isn't this what our mothers are for? Or our peers? I don't get this at all. Sometimes I'll seek out someone who has a particular skillset or experience in an area that I'm interested in, but I don't see the value in just choosing someone because they have the same gender and are older than me. How would I know that they are any more spiritually minded than I am?

Pam, Thanks so much for your thoughts on this, the evidence you provide, and the practical advice you give. Although I sometimes cringe when recognizing that I'm part of the "older generation" you describe--can I really be over 40?--I appreciate your challenge for women my age to step up, and to be a mentor. Two thoughts: 1) How can women my age who are just struggling to support their families, financially and spiritually and a million other ways, make space for younger women in our lives? This seems a particular challenge to me, but perhaps I need to simply give up some of the other choices I make to do so; and 2) Can there be value in mentoring young women by shared activity, rather than being direct and intentional about doing so? I mean, I feel my most transparent and vulnerable and willing to share my life when I'm doing physical activity with friends, and wonder if just doing stuff together with younger women is a more organic way to provide direction and guidance? Thoughts?

On the other hand, I have found that it's not ME who doesn't have the time! The younger women whom I have worked with (or in some cases tried to work with) have a hard time working me into their schedule, not the other way around. Do you chase after them, or do you let them have some responsiblity for making time for the mentoring process?

Chandra, Thanks for your comments today. I wonder how many other women in leadership are pondering this issue? Can you expand more on how the generational differences, "popped right up and slapped us all in the face?" I'd love to hear more. Special blessings on your day and ministry!

I love how the Holy Spirit works! I've been pondering these same issues lately. I started helping women in the generation ahead of me with some ministry work, and the generational differences in leadership style, demeanor and approach to ministry work popped right up and slapped us all in the face. My experiences started me wondering about the widespread implications of this. Now here you are on the same issue...I LOVE IT!!! Also, God seems to be using the open letter format in creative ways. Here's one I just wrote to black Christian women: http:/www.urbanfaith.com/2013/02/sisters-and-citizens-part-2-open-letter-to -black-christian-women.html/