Sharing the Stage

We are a husband-and-wife team who lead a faith community in Deep Ellum, a district of Dallas, Texas. From the beginning we wanted to be co-pastors, but we knew this would be an adjustment for the congregation. Now that we've led the church for a few years, we decided to share our reflections on how leading together is going so far.

Rachel: We knew communication to the congregation was essential. We explained that Joel and I truly serve side-by-side, a 50-50 split. Our roles would be based on giftedness, not gender. We really were going to co-pastor, together. Though we were resolute about this commitment, we tried to be accommodating in the early days. We both preached on Sundays but Joel led our staff and board meetings. Joel loved leading the staff meetings. The board meetings were another story.

Joel: Leading the board was a chore for me. Actually, "leading" consisted of Rachel creating the agenda for the meeting and spending two hours prepping me on what to cover. It was frustrating for Rachel because it felt disingenuous to work together in that way. After three months I told my wife, "It's time for you to start leading the board. This is getting ridiculous." She agreed but was a bit nervous. The board we were working with came from the previous era of leadership.

The first meeting Rachel led did not go smoothly. One board member refused to look at her.

The first meeting Rachel led did not go smoothly. One board member refused to look at her. He averted his eyes throughout the entire meeting and refused to respond to anything that came directly from her. It was painful to watch. Eventually, that board member and another confronted me saying, "You two are the right people. You're just doing things the wrong way." Their message was clear—I needed to man up and lead. Rachel needed to submit and follow. I'm not going to lie: I swallowed some very un-Christian comments.

We've come a long way since those early days. We lost a few people along the way—including those two board members. However, for the most part, our community was able to make this transition in a way that not only made room for women in leadership but has continued to attract those who admit they're more comfortable with a man as their lead pastor.

We didn't explain the value of shared leadership; we just lived it.

Rachel: In the culture we've created, men and women serve alongside one another at every level of leadership. Joel and I co-pastor. The ladies on our pastoral staff outnumber the men two to one. Three of our nine board members are women. One of those ladies is a single 30-something professional. Our members are proud to have women serving so prominently. Still, a number of people in our faith community continue to introduce me as the pastor's wife.

Joel: When it comes to discipleship, we believe the best way to form people is to focus on their desires, not just what they think. New affections impact people more than new information. This is the same approach we've taken to introducing our shared leadership into the life of our community. In five years, we've dedicated only one full sermon to this issue. (In our two-year trek through Acts, we had to do something with Priscilla and Aquila!) However in that time, Rachel has preached about 110 times to my 150. She has led 57 board meetings to my three. She has also led our annual business meeting for the last two years. We didn't explain the value of shared leadership; we just lived it. And while some mentally rejected it, their hearts were open. When they saw it practiced well, most found themselves saying, "This feels good to us and to the Holy Spirit."

We don't take offense or correct people when they introduce Rachel as the "pastor's wife." We've decided to make room within our body for people to think independently on secondary doctrines such as young earth versus old earth, the Calvinist/Arminian debate, or the issue of women in leadership.

When it came to filling leadership roles, we simply asked God to send the best person.

Yet we have found it necessary to have some boundaries. For example, we will not allow someone to teach or forward a complementarian view of Scripture in our community. It's okay for people to personally hold those views and be contributing members, but to proselytize a position that invalidates our leadership structure is unacceptable. In addition, we will not hire someone or allow someone to serve on the board unless they are supportive of women at every level of church leadership. The work done by Rachel and other women in our community is simply too important. It's kingdom building work, and we can't allow it to be thwarted by anyone who resists our overall direction on this.

Rachel has also taught me that women in ministry cannot have a chip on their shoulder about this issue. I am grateful for her perspective. As long as she can do what God has uniquely called her to do, she doesn't care too much if you call her "pastor" or "pastor's wife." She knows who she is in Christ. Yes, we're empathetic with those who honestly struggle with the issue, but we will not allow it to become a primary or divisive issue. Women are going to teach at Life in Deep Ellum as long as Rachel and I are pastors. Women are going to serve on our board. We don't hide it nor spotlight it, but we do celebrate it.

Rachel: We believe the most compelling interpretation of Scripture on the subject of gender and ministry points to a model where God can call and use anyone he wants. So when it came to filling leadership roles, we simply asked God to send the best person. Therefore, when the opportunity came to hire new staff and a highly gifted woman applied, we hired her. In fact, our first two hires were females. Contrary to what some may think, this was not a form of affirmative action. They were simply the best people for the job. It helped that Joel didn't say, "Wait Rachel. I'm getting outnumbered here. I'd feel more comfortable if we hired another guy."

What centers me is the truth that only God can validate any of our work.

Making the transition with our staff was easy. Our board empowers us to do all our own hiring. The harder area to transition was the board itself. After our first year, each board member stated that they were comfortable with the idea of women (in addition to me) serving on the board. However, each year when it came time to nominate candidates, women did not make it through the process. After years of this, Joel and I made the decision to address the emotional bias we saw at work. The guys on the board were open to a woman serving but when choosing future members, they kept defaulting to the men they knew. But with a little encouragement, the board added two female members that year.

We have people in our community who see women in leadership and find ways to accommodate our methods within their own interpretation of Scripture. One woman explained her perspective by saying, "Oh, I think a woman can do anything she wants in ministry as long as her husband gives her permission." It was tempting to argue but we're more concerned with women being in leadership than challenging people's thinking on a secondary doctrine.

Joel: This is an important issue – one that is riddled with theological and emotional landmines. As a man, I wrestle with the biblical and emotional issues just like any other guy. My ego is not exempt. However, my love for my wife trumps my ego. If I am to love her as Christ loves the church, how can I not support the call I've seen God place on her life? Like any good husband has been taught, opening doors for our wives is an act of honorable service.

Rachel: I decided early on that I could either try to prove myself to others and argue that God truly called me, or I could just do it and allow God's work to speak for itself. I chose the second path and I'm glad I did. What centers me is the truth that only God can validate any of our work. So when well-meaning friends say things like, "Oh, Rachel, you don't preach. You share." I can smile and talk some more about the sermon I apparently did not preach that Sunday.