Do you love taking personality tests? Do you know your Myers-Briggs letters by heart? Can you rattle off your StrengthsFinder results on cue without missing a beat? Then you’ve probably heard of the Enneagram, the personality model that’s been creating buzz in board rooms, at retreat centers, around water coolers—and yes, even in churches—across the country. (And if you haven’t heard of it, trust us—you will soon. It’s that popular.)

Earlier this month, InterVarsity Press released Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile’s The Road Back to You, a book that aims to show the connections between the wisdom of the Enneagram and Christianity’s own rich spiritual tradition. For this week’s episode of The Calling, CT managing editor Richard Clark sat down with Cron and Stabile to talk about what this ancient model has to offer today’s church:

Ian on what the Enneagram’s numbers signify: “Each of these numbers—these are strategies for trying to remain in charge, and to make sense of your own life, and to find the love you believe you’re unworthy of.”

Suzanne on first-timers’ most common reaction to the Enneagram: “The line we get the most, I think, is ‘You’ve been reading my mail? How did you know that about me? It’s uncanny how much you know about me.’”

Ian on why he loves small groups: “I’ve spoken with thousands of people, and I will always take 50. I love speaking to big crowds—I’m not saying I don’t like it….It’s just that I connect at a deeply emotional level with people, and that happens better when I’m in a room sitting on the floor with them.”

Suzanne on her biggest worry: “My that I’m not mindful of the anxiety, or the fear, or the judgment, or the theology, or whatever, that I hang on other people’s bones.”

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The Calling is produced by Richard Clark and Cray Allred.

Theme music by Lee Rosevere, used under Creative Commons 4.0.