Podcast Episode 21, 44 min
Church Planting For Everyone, with Peyton Jones (ep 021)

Right.

Peyton Jones: And this is when we knew we'd be friends. Carl. Yeah,

Karl Vaters: exactly. Even as the church is sinking in the west, it continues to cling to this failed movement. Like a life saving ring made of iron, much of what is called church planting is really church growth packaged as an ecclesiastical as a, as a queasy old business startup.

Okay. We got to talk about that paragraph, right? What is it about the church growth movement? That is not going to work going forward and church planting, or maybe didn't work before, and it's not going to work now, whereas it never worked out. What's your take on?

Peyton Jones: I really like what Ellen, hers says. He says the church is designed to accomplish exactly what it's accomplishing.

In other words, the design is wrong. So church planning, growth movement. I, I spell out in the book a little bit later. The church growth movement is what happens when you leave an evangelist. I of course believe in the Apess functionality of leadership, which shows that we're a mixed bag and we're a team sport.

So I'm one of many, you know, I might be more with a little a, I got to give that caveat there that I'm just a missionary. That's just a fancy, that's a new Testament word for mission. I'm just. So I plant churches and move on. I don't stay, you don't want me being your pastor long-term I start to smell like the old banana in the closet, but at the beginning I am ripe and bold and dang it.

I'm bright yellow, and I plant churches. But as time goes on, you know, those other gifts, those other people on my team, their gifts start to wax as mine starts to wane. But what we do in the body of Christ is we split into these different areas. Prophetic type leaders tend to gravitate towards Pentecostal charismatic movements.

The episodics, we just all hit the mission field or just go do something like start up a business and to start ministering to people where we're at being catalysts and creating community and kingdom culture, wherever we go, the evangelists, you know, they, I make fun of them and I pick on them. Carl, they're hard to get along.

The, the rise and fall of Mars hill right now that big podcast is really telling you, this is what happens when an evangelist does not have people around them to balance them. So to answer your question, yes, the teachers go to Calvary chapel, word based movements, reform movements. So we've split, but the body of Christ, we're all men.

Pivot is a part of CT's Blog Forum. Support the work of CT. Subscribe and get one year free.
The views of the blogger do not necessarily reflect those of Christianity Today.

Join in the conversation about this post on Facebook.

Recent Posts

Read More from Karl

Follow Christianity Today

Free Newsletters