Podcast Episode 29, 56 min
When “Can’t Miss” Church Growth Answers Don't Work, with Cory Hartman (Ep 29)
An interview about what to do when answers don't work as promised, and refocusing on the essentials.

Corey Hartman: I believe that one of the myths of our time is the myth of magic leadership.

Karl Vaters: Hi, I'm Karl Vaters and I'm a small church pastor. And welcome to this episode of, Can This Work in a Small Church? My guest is Corey Hartman. He's the co-author of Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth. In this episode, we talk about something that may be a trigger term for many of us, namely part of the subtitle of the book, church growth. But in this book and in our talk today, Corey really takes church health more into account.

Corey's background is in small churches, which he describes in our conversation. So his background, his experiences, and his writing speak well to small church leaders. And don't forget to stick around when the interview is done. I'll come back with an overview of the content and an answer to the question: Can this work in a small church?

I want to welcome you, Corey Hartman, to Can This Work in a Small Church. It's good to have you on as a guest today.

Corey Hartman: It is great to be here, Karl, thank you for having me.

Karl Vaters: I'm interviewing you today; it's an interesting path to get to you today. So I'm going to walk through the path.

Corey Hartman: Very good.

Karl Vaters: I found your name through the book, Future Church. The way I got into it was somebody recommended Future Church to me. The subtitle is Seven Laws of Real Church Growth. And for me, and for a lot of my small church friends, just those two words, church growth, are enough to make us running to the hills screaming because we've read so many church growth books and been to so many church growth conferences and walked away and gone, Why isn't this working for me, to where now they're trigger words. But somebody had promised me, this is not one of those, this is different than that.

So I bought it, put it on my shelf and it's been sitting there for, I don't know, a year or so. And then somebody online, or somehow I found an article online that had your name attached to it, and then connected to it was, this is actually a - I don't know if they called it a missing chapter or a deleted chapter or what it was, but this was actually originally a chapter in this book, Future Church. And I went… Oh, it's there on my shelf. And the article that I read that was originally a chapter in the book was Cure All: One Pastor's Accidental Quest to Debunk Every Revitalization Therapy, which was of course what got me to read the article to begin with. And then I picked up Future Church and I read it through, and it really is different than so many others that have church growth in the title, it just takes a different approach to it. There's no sense of the talking down to that I sometimes feel in other books. Even if that's not the intention of the author, sometimes we as small church pastors feel talked down to, even if it's just simply our own feelings of inferiority, whatever. There's none of that in this. A lot of that I think because of your background.

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July 11, 2022

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