{"id":64476,"date":"2025-09-01T17:00:37","date_gmt":"2025-09-01T17:00:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.christianitytoday.com\/pastors\/?p=64476"},"modified":"2026-02-18T15:34:30","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T15:34:30","slug":"spiritual-formation-local-address-richard-foster-rich-villodas","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.christianitytoday.com\/pastors\/content\/spiritual-formation-local-address-richard-foster-rich-villodas\/","title":{"rendered":"Spiritual Formation Has a Local Address"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

When Richard Foster was a pastor, he would often spend Saturdays walking around the empty sanctuary and sitting in different pews to pray. \u201cI\u2019d think about the family that would sit there and pray into them the sermon that I\u2019d be preaching on Sunday,\u201d Foster said.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Many things have changed since the theologian\u2019s best-selling book <\/em>Celebration of Discipline was first published in 1978. What hasn\u2019t changed is the call for pastors and church leaders to follow Jesus and disciple their flocks.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In an interview with pastor and author Rich Villodas, Foster reminds us of what healthy pastoral leadership should look like in an age of distraction and superficiality.<\/em> This interview has been edited and condensed.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Rich Villodas:<\/strong> As pastors and church leaders, how do we listen to and follow in the way of Jesus and create environments within local church communities where others can do the same?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Richard Foster:<\/strong> The ABCs of church \u201csuccess\u201d today are attendance, buildings, and cash. I had to learn to give up on those things until I could see a human being in those I ministered to. I had to learn to simply come alongside another person and listen to their heart.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s a story of a lady in Russia who had some turkeys. As Paul Pearson, in an article about Thomas Merton, tells the story, the woman\u2019s spiritual director was giving a lot of time to listening about her turkeys, and he got criticized for it. He replied with something like, \u201cDon\u2019t you understand that this lady\u2019s whole life is in those turkeys?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I want to say to pastors and leaders: Try out the spiritual disciplines personally, maybe for three years. See what you learn. And then begin to find others who long for God and invest in listening to them and what they care about\u2014their turkeys, if you will\u2014and walk with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I remember a dear fellow in our congregation who worked at a research institute. I asked if I could come to the place where he did his work. On the day I visited, he had learned that his research was going into the military complex. He\u2019d spent half his life getting a PhD, and what he was researching was being used to kill people. You learn to weep with people in times like that and to just sit with them, deeply invested in their turkeys.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Pastors don\u2019t have to be the center of attention. As pastors, we take the focus off of ourselves and point to Christ. Jesus has not contracted laryngitis. His voice is not hard to hear. His vocabulary is not difficult to understand. He will speak to us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s true every generation has its own \u201cturkeys\u201d\u2014a particular emphasis based on what\u2019s happening in the world, in a local community. When you think about the American church and its leaders today, what\u2019s most urgently needed in terms of the spiritual disciplines?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> The first sentence in Celebration of Discipline<\/em> is \u201cSuperficiality is the curse of our age.\u201d At that time in the 1970s, there was this superficial way of living, even in the religious community\u2014maybe especially in the religious community. Celebration<\/em> was an effort to work with that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But you were asking about today. Today, the great issue of superficiality is still there. But the other issue is distraction, which has come as a kind of massive thing on people\u2019s heads. They\u2019re constantly distracted. We\u2019ve got to work on that somehow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Scripture says, \u201cBe still and know that I am God\u201d (Ps. 46:10). So today, solitude is one of the most essential disciplines. Let me tell you why.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When I would take my regular seasonal retreats, the first thing I\u2019d start to wonder is, What\u2019s going on with the family? Are the kids fighting? The church\u2014what\u2019s gonna happen there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And here\u2019s what I learned: People actually did quite well without me. When we practice solitude, we learn how to resign as CEO of the universe. We learn that things can go on without us. We learn that it\u2019s okay to say no.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> For a pastor or a ministry leader who might be intimidated by the idea of solitude, how would you coach them in their initial steps of pushing back against a culture of distraction?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> You take it as you can take it. Don\u2019t try to do stuff you can\u2019t do\u2014pray as you can, not as you can\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the early days, I tried to be heroic about all this stuff. I tried to pray in ways that I can\u2019t. I heard that John Wesley would get up at 4 a.m. to pray. So I got up at 4 a.m. too, but I always fell asleep. I would end up standing against a wall to try to stay awake and pray\u2014but I learned that you can fall asleep standing against a wall. I had to learn that 4 a.m. wasn\u2019t a good thing for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> Whenever I try to work out, my wife will say, \u201cGo at your pace. Don\u2019t overdo it.\u201d I think that\u2019s a good way of thinking about prayer and solitude, as you say: Go as far as you can, and that\u2019s okay. You\u2019ll build up the muscle and continue to go further.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> Exactly. Your wife is very wise. Remember the passage that says to not \u201cdespise the day of small things\u201d (Zech. 4:10). What we learn is the hidden preparation through which God puts his ministers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> I love that\u2014despise not the day of small beginnings with the spiritual life. What a liberating truth that is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It seems to me that having a breakdown of formation and discipleship has often led to particular church structures that are marked by abuse and unhealth. What does healthy pastoral authority look like in an age where we\u2019ve seen lots of abuses within the church?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> As leaders, we have to take people off of us and put them on Christ. Discipleship is helping people see how to walk with Christ. And you know, it doesn\u2019t take so many words: You\u2019re with someone. You listen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Spiritual formation always has a local address. In a larger church setting where we had a staff and so on, I got assigned to do hospital visitations. I was trying to learn about prayer in those days, and I was kind of frustrated, saying, \u201cGod, I\u2019m having to go to this hospital all the time. But I want to learn how to pray.\u201d This was one of the first times where I felt God\u2019s loving but firm response: The hospital is where you\u2019re going to learn to pray.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There was a little fellow, Davey, about 5 years old, who had Down syndrome and a pretty severe illness. One night I stayed all night long with Davey\u2019s mom and dad, waiting to see if he would live or die. He had tubes coming out of his brain, draining fluid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Davey was in the hospital I think six months. And I\u2019ll tell you, there was a bond that was built between Davey and me in those six months. When Davey got out of the hospital and we saw each other across the room, we just made a beeline for one another. And that Sunday, I preached my heart out. Why? Because Davey was listening.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> That\u2019s beautiful\u2014that\u2019s the pastoral work that we\u2019re doing. What I also recognize in the pastoral call, though, is that we are up against a culture of division and polarization that is really intense. The world has always had division and polarization, but there is a new level of it today because of technology and a 24-7 news cycle that\u2019s always before us. What\u2019s your encouragement to pastors who are trying to lead faithfully in this particular social and cultural moment?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> Boy, Rich, that is the question today. I look at what\u2019s going on and how often pastors are just torn apart. I mean, what should they say? I don\u2019t know. You just try to be faithful and love people. You\u2019re giving Communion on Sunday for people who love you and care for you, alongside people who hate you and are trying to get rid of you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> That sounds like something Jesus would be familiar with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> Exactly, Rich, you\u2019ve got it. Now, you remember the old circus tents where you\u2019d have a great center pole and then around the edge are a lot of smaller poles holding up the tent. Any number of the poles around the edge can fall down, and the tent stays up. The center pole, though, if that falls, it\u2019s over. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I\u2019ve tried to stress, when I\u2019m working with people, that the great center pole is Christ: his birth, his life, his teachings, his death, his resurrection. We can have differences about a lot of other things. They can even be pretty important things. But we don\u2019t have to agree on everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Villodas:<\/strong> One last question: Are there one or two specific practices that are helping you order your life in God today, that are keeping you anchored to his presence in this season of your life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Foster:<\/strong> Well, I get up and try to write a little bit, until my brain is fried\u2014that doesn\u2019t take too long. And then I\u2019ll go out. I live in a sort of woodsy area, and there\u2019s a little canyon nearby, a state park. And then I come back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not every day, but many days, I go to a little restaurant called Adriana\u2019s. It\u2019s just a house that\u2019s been converted into a restaurant. And Adriana points me to a table and keeps the coffee coming while I go over what I wrote that morning. I\u2019m the kind that\u2019ll spend all morning taking out a comma and all afternoon putting it back in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now when I\u2019m on the little hike, I\u2019m getting acquainted with the trees and the animals, and that\u2019s good, but I\u2019m also trying to listen to God. If there\u2019s a meeting that day, I ask, \u201cIs there anything that I need to say? Or mostly, is there anything I don\u2019t need to say?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I pray for all of us that we can learn to walk cheerfully over the earth. The joy of the Lord is our strength. May he give us a great sense, an expansive sense, of his joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Richard Foster<\/strong> is an author, teacher, former pastor, and founder of Renovar\u00e9.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Rich Villodas<\/strong> is an author and the lead pastor of New Life Fellowship in Queens, New York.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n

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When Richard Foster was a pastor, he would often spend Saturdays walking around the empty sanctuary and sitting in different pews to pray. \u201cI\u2019d think about the family that would sit there and pray into them the sermon that I\u2019d be preaching on Sunday,\u201d Foster said. Many things have changed since the theologian\u2019s best-selling book Read more…<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":84,"featured_media":64477,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"tax_ctp_authors":[2761,2776],"tax_ctp_books":[],"tax_ctp_categories":[154],"tax_ctp_field_guide_subcategory":[],"tax_ctp_field_guides":[],"tax_ctp_format":[131],"tax_ctp_multimedia":[],"tax_ctp_point_editor":[],"tax_publications":[181,183,156],"tax_ctp_tags":[3613,4604,4608,4679,5016,5043,5046],"tax_ctp_topics":[],"class_list":["post-64476","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tax_ctp_authors-rich-villodas","tax_ctp_authors-richard-foster","tax_publications-2025-leadership-journal","tax_publications-fall_2025-leadership-journal","tax_publications-leadership-journal","tax_ctp_tags-church-leadership","tax_ctp_tags-pastor","tax_ctp_tags-pastoral-care","tax_ctp_tags-prayer","tax_ctp_tags-solitude","tax_ctp_tags-spiritual-discipline","tax_ctp_tags-spiritual-formation"],"acf":{"scripture_references":null},"yoast_head":"\nSpiritual 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