For some, the prospect of studying the Old Testament appears daunting and quite boring. But in recent years, theologians, pastors, and Bible teachers have for laity begun connecting Christ to the Old Testament, seeing him in everything from the Levitical laws to the laments of the Psalms. Nancy Guthrie has undertaken the task of showing how the entire Bible centers on the hope of the Messiah, currently writing five 10-week Bible studies called Seeing Jesus in the Old Testament.
An accomplished author, Guthrie attends and teaches at Christ Presbyterian Church in Nashville, and contributes to The Gospel Coalition. In addition to her writing, Guthrie and her husband, David, also host Respite Retreat for couples who have experienced the death of a child. She graciously spoke with Her.meneutics about her most recent study, The Wisdom of God: Seeing Jesus in the Psalms and Wisdom Books, the second in the Seeing Jesus in the Old Testament series. The study will be available from Crossway Books at the end of this month.
You are a prolific author. How did your newest Bible study series come about?
I grew up in church, worked in Christian publishing for over 20 years, and have been in Bible studies for as long as I can remember. But I began to grasp the big picture story of the Bible only a few years ago, when I became gripped by a scene described in the Gospel of Luke (Luke 24:27). It caused me to reconsider how I have understood the Old Testament for most of my life. I spent a year working through the Old Testament, which developed in me a passion to create materials for Bible study groups to understand how Jesus is pictured in its people and patterns, how he is anticipated in its celebrations and songs, and how he is the answer to all of its unanswered questions and unmet needs.
This is your second book in the series. What led you to choose the Psalms and Wisdom books for the second study?
Genesis and Psalms are favorites for small-group Bible study. The narrative story of Genesis is very different from the drama, poetry, and proverb of Wisdom Literature, so this second study reveals Christ in very different but in compelling and beautiful ways.
We tend to see the Bible’s wisdom literature, especially Proverbs, as a moralistic guidebook for living. What and who influenced your understanding of all the wisdom literature as really being about Christ—the wise one?
I have discovered a number of incredible theologians and Bible teachers who have a solid grasp on biblical theology and are gospel-centered, as opposed to a mostly moralistic or doctrinal approach to the Bible. My best help on this particular book seemed to come from preachers with foreign accents, such as Graeme Goldsworthy, John Woodhouse, Liam Goligher, Andrew Jones, Christopher Ash, and Sinclair Ferguson. [Reformed blogger] Kevin DeYoung doesn’t exactly have an accent like the rest, but his sermon series on Ecclesiastes was very helpful to me.
Many Christians refer to the Psalms as proof that believers ought to honestly vent our emotions to God. But you believe the Psalms “also show us that God intends to change how we feel.” Why do you feel like this explanation is important, especially for women who participate in this study?
Most of us easily accept that God intends to change what we believe, how we think, and what we will do and not do. But we tend to think of feelings as outside the realm of God’s redemptive purposes. We think that we just feel what we feel and that feelings can’t really be changed or commanded. The amazing thing about the Bible, and especially the Psalms, is that it not only presents us with thoughts to think and beliefs to embrace but also with feelings to feel. It challenges us to forsake our despair to embrace hope in God, and to replace our fear with confidence in God.
Your Seeing Jesus in the Old Testament Bible studies include a section each week connecting the particular passage to what is yet to come when Christ returns to establish the new heavens and earth. Why do you include that in each week’s lesson?
For most of my life, I’ve thought of heaven primarily being a place away from here, where our spirits go to be with God forever after we die, which is the typical evangelical understanding. But the story of the Bible shows that history is headed toward the redemption not just of humanity but of the entire creation, so that we will live forever in God’s presence on a redeemed earth. To reorient how we’ve understood heaven and eternity, we have to see it not just in a handful of passages about the return of Christ and “end times,” but rather throughout the whole of Scripture, and in fact every part of Scripture. When we see it from various angles as we work our way through Scripture, it completes the storyline of the Bible and solidifies our grasp on what is revealed about what is yet to come.
How has your own personal and teaching experience prepared you to apply the text to the lives of the people you are teaching?
I love sound theology, and I also love being real about life’s struggles and questions. When those two things intersect, real impact is made. So as I search out how a book or passage presents Christ, I’m always looking for how that aspect of the person and work of Christ meets a very real need that we all have. I figure if it is a need or struggle I have, I’m probably not alone. Sound theology, which is right thinking about God, provides a solid basis for the most compelling personal application.
Jenkins Entertainment recently finished shooting for its next film What If…, starring Kevin Sorbo (Hercules) and John Ratzenberger (Cliff Clavin on Cheers).
According to a press release, the movie, the sixth film from the father/son duo of Jerry and Dallas Jenkins, “tells the story of Ben Walker (Sorbo) who 15 years ago left the love of his life . . . and ignored his ministry calling in order to pursue a business opportunity. Now, as a high-powered investment banker with a trophy fiancée, he has little or no interest in faith or building a family.
Have you seen Into the Woods? The musical, written by Stephen Sondheim, opened on Broadway in 1987 and has been produced uncountable times since then. The play weaves together the stories of Little Red Riding Hood, Jack (of Beanstalk fame), and Rapunzel, among others. It begins with the narrator’s decisive proclamation: “Once upon a time!” followed by Cinderella, Jack, and the wife of Little Red’s favorite baker singing, “I wish …” as they confess their most intimate longings.
I wish I had a child.
I wish the walls were full of gold.
I wish a lot of things …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My92oE9RwRE
Getting lost in the woods. Being entrapped by a witch, or a wolf, or cruel stepsisters. These timeworn images are totems, calling up whole volumes of meaning. And the lines “I wish” and “once upon a time” are catchphrases we expect to hear from the likes of Cinderella and Jack. They are, to be sure,”Stuff People in Fairy Tales Say.”
You’ve likely heard of the Internet meme with a similar name. Its origin is a Twitter feed created by Justin Halpern in 2009. Halpern, then 27 years old, was a writer who had moved home to live with his parents. His Tweets documented his father’s humorous – and belligerent and lewd – observations. We feel we know this man’s personality and the generation of which he is a part after reading Halpern’s Tweets:
· “Oh please, you practically invented lazy. People should have to call you and ask for the rights to lazy before they use it.”
· “Your mother made a batch of meatballs last night. Some are for you, but more are for me. Remember that. More. Me.”
· “I hate paying bills … Son, don’t say, ‘Me too.’ I didn’t say that looking to relate to you. I said it instead of ‘go away.’”
$#*! My Dad Says went, as they say, “viral.” Halpern published a book that was adapted into a short-lived television series. He continues to Tweet and to date nearly three million people follow him on Twitter.
Halpern’s work has spawned numerous imitations. Look on YouTube and you’ll find dozens of “things people say” videos. By the way, for our purposes here, we’re employing words such as “stuff” and “things” to stand in for the stronger, and more commonly used word in these videos. If you are offended by what my fourth grade daughter calls “the ‘s’ word,” you’d best not walk into the woods of YouTube to follow this trend. Also be forewarned that a number of the videos posted there are crass and humorless. Others, in my opinion, are inventive, charming, and crammed with insight. They illustrate, time and time again, that what we (repeatedly) say reveals our deepest beliefs, prejudices, and yearnings. (I wish …)
Take for example:
What people say to homeschooled kids.
· “Wow, you must be a genius!”
· “What’s nine times six?”
· “You would have so many friends if you went to school.”
What Crunchy Mamas Say.
· “Who’s your doula?”
· “You use regular deodorant?”
· “Oh, we don’t have a crib!”
What Christian Girls Say.
· “I’ll pray for you!”
· “I should journal.”
· “I just love coffee and the Word.”
You can spend all day watching people parody themselves or others in this genre. What Girls Say, What New Yorkers Say, What Presbyterian Seminarians Say, and several varieties of What Christians Say to Atheists are entertaining. There’s even What Downton Abbey’s Dowager Countess Says for fans of that program. I’m fond of the videos that play on reversals and upend our expectations, such as What Monks Say, What Birds Say, and, especially, What Nobody Says.
Why are there dozens of new “What ___ Say” videos cropping up, it seems, by the day? Some critics chide the videos for being bigoted, petty, and for promoting stereotypes. I’m sure some are guilty of such crimes, but this is too significant a fad to write off merely as mean-spirited nonsense.
What can we learn from watching them? What do they teach us about ourselves?
How others see us? Our prejudices against others? Don’t some of these videos validate our experiences of being misunderstood (as in, perhaps, the homeschooler’s video)? Don’t they make us cringe at our own thoughtlessness, superficiality, or falseness, as in the “What Girls Say” and “What Christian Girls Say” spoofs?
I listen to and I hear myself differently after watching what I think is a credible send-up in “What Girls Say.”
· “Can you do me a huge favor?”
· “Can you turn it up a bit?”
· “Can you turn it down a bit?”
· “I’m not even joking right now.”
As I cringe at the verisimilitude of that one, I think of my two daughters. What am I modeling for them? Being empowered to speak the truth? Uncertainty? What do they hear me say over and over, say so often that I don’t even notice I’m speaking the words?
What would they say if they were to make a parody of their mother’s oft-repeated phrases? Am I chattering on like a stabbing sword – to reference Proverbs 12:18 – or is my speech wise and capable of healing? What’s worth talking about?
At the conclusion of Into the Woods, the witch reflects on having raised Rapunzel and sings the chilling lyrics:
“Careful the things you say.
Children will listen
Careful the things you do
Children will see and learn
Children may not obey, but children will listen …”
“Things” we say reveal the condition and yearnings of our souls. I appreciate the “What People Say” videos for their humor – and for the needed reminder they provide: What we find ourselves saying most often is a window into the state of our hearts.
Jennifer Grant is the author of Love You More: The Divine Surprise of Adopting My Daughter and the upcoming MOMumental: Adventures in the Messy Art of Raising a Family. Find her online at jennifergrant.com.
“But . . . Ben is visited by a mysterious (divine, perhaps?) tow truck driver (Ratzenberger) who knocks Ben into an alternative reality – the life he should have had. Ben awakens on a Sunday with his wife Wendy and two daughters getting ready for church, where Ben is scheduled to give his first sermon as the new pastor. If Ben wants to escape this What If… scenario, he must first learn the value of faith and family.”
What If … is the first in a two-picture partnership between Jenkins Entertainment and Pure Flix Entertainment. Jenkins Entertainment is owned by New York Times bestselling author Jerry B. Jenkins and operated by his son Dallas Jenkins.
