On Wednesday, Democrats released emails from the late Jeffrey Epstein that seem to indicate President Donald Trump may have been aware that Epstein sexually abused trafficked women and girls. Republicans followed suit hours later with their own release of approximately 23,000 pages of documents. Some critics have called the Republican release a flooding of the zone, an attempt to draw attention away from the emails. Others have pointed to the massive document release as fulfillment of the administration’s promise to be transparent and cooperative in the investigation.
Russell Moore, Mike Cosper, and Nicole Martin on The Bulletin discuss these new documents and a Christian response to sexual abuse. Here are edited excerpts from the conversation (Episode 225).
What did the documents released by Democrats and Republicans say?
Mike Cosper: Democrats released emails that show Jeffrey Epstein talking about Donald Trump. In the emails, he seems to be well aware of how Trump is implicated by the things that Epstein was doing. Epstein talks about Trump being at his house with one of Epstein’s victims. The name is redacted.
It’s important for us to say that these are allegations. However, Trump said that once he knew Epstein was a criminal, he distanced himself. That doesn’t necessarily seem to be true, based on what Epstein is saying in the emails that the Democrats released.
As for the documents released by Republicans, you have to wonder how many were read in advance of their release, because some of them are between Steve Bannon and Epstein and implicate Trump in very ugly ways.
What was your response to the document release?
Russell Moore: I am angry for a number of reasons. First, even without these emails, which are damning, the White House is pressuring members of Congress. Meetings in the Situation Room, stopping members of Congress from using parliamentary maneuvers, delaying the swearing in of a new Congress member who would offer the deciding vote on this, keeping the House out of session for seven weeks—all of that to keep these emails from being released.
Second, Ghislaine Maxwell, who is a fundamental part of these documents, has been moved to a minimum-security “Club Fed” and is reportedly seeking commutation of her sentence. Meanwhile, the Epstein emails allege that he was with President Trump in 2019 in London with Prince Andrew, who has since been stripped of all of his titles and privileges. That may or may not be true, but that must be answered.
This is operating exactly the way that I have seen church sexual abuse work: protecting predators over and over again. They hope that the normies just get tired of it and say, “What are you going to do?” That’s the key, and usually that ultimately works.
Cosper: The Justice Department interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell a few months ago, and that interview got her moved to this minimum-security prison. This is a woman who is convicted of sex trafficking, taking young girls and farming them out to rich and powerful men through Epstein. Why was she moved? Because she did this interview where she told the Justice Department that she had no reason to suspect that Trump was aware of any of this. In these emails we see that is not true.
As far as I’m concerned, lock her up: send her back. That’s the just thing to do, not simply because she lied but because she trafficked girls. That is a horrific crime that all Americans should want to see punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Often, sexual abuse stories center around men who are the perpetrators. Here a woman is also complicit. What does that mean to you?
Nicole Martin: I’m not at all surprised. There is typically a woman involved in sexual abuse and trafficking situations. Often a woman benefits from the system—acting as the trusted person who helps to cover up molestation or speaking out as the first denier about what happened to you. This revelation should ignite anger and frustration.
When I hear this as a woman, it is also very triggering. This is where you have to guard your heart and mind to ensure that you know what you need to do as a result of the news. It’s very emotional, and sometimes when you get emotionally involved, you shut down because it’s too much. You can also get so deeply involved in a story like this that you feel like it’s personal. You have to lean on the Holy Spirit for wisdom, discernment, and direction here.
Many of us can’t help but think of the women we know. One in three women have been sexually abused or assaulted. We also must contend with the statistics on sex trafficking and the impact on young women who have to hear over and over about these issues. They put themselves in these stories, or they see their sisters there.
The documents revealed that Jeffrey Epstein seemed willing to throw President Trump under the bus for political or financial advantage. What might be the implications of that for the president?
Cosper: The bits that we’ve seen so far indicate why the president and his administration are working so hard to keep these documents from going public. Are we really surprised that a sex trafficker is not a loyal friend? Because that’s what Epstein was. Epstein was a sex trafficker; Ghislaine Maxwell is a sex trafficker who allegedly sexually abused some of these girls. The extent of depravity here is hard to grasp.
Representative Nancy Mace is one of the Republicans who have broken with Trump over this issue. Mace is controversial figure, but she’s also shared publicly that she is a survivor of sexual assault. You can understand why a woman in her position is saying, “I’m not going there. I’m not doing this.” The willingness of Republicans to break with President Trump may be because he is a lame duck, but many of those who are breaking with Trump over this are women. That matters as well.
Moore: The blackmail language being used in those emails shouldn’t surprise us either. President Trump’s secretary of commerce, Howard Lutnick, talked months ago about how this worked with Epstein. The trafficking allowed Epstein to have something on powerful people. There was a whole network and web of very powerful people across every part of the spectrum.
I talked to a researcher the other day about a similar situation happening in a church context where a group of powerful predators were protecting one another within the ecclesial network because they all knew where the bodies were buried—You can’t say anything about me, or I’m going to talk about you—that kind of depraved thinking, in the way Epstein’s talking in these files.
Martin: If we think this is an issue out there, we are sorely mistaken about what’s happening in our churches—I would dare say, even in some families. We have to pay attention, because this is happening. It’s not just young women; it’s young men. We saw years ago with the Eddie Long story that a power dynamic creates spaces for vulnerable people who either want to be in ministry or just want to be close to the pastor. They can be so easily taken advantage of, and networks of power create systems that protect predators.
This is not just a political problem; this is a church problem. There’s a reason for signs in airport bathrooms “If you see something, say something.” There’s a reason for hotlines and signs that help you discern whether or not someone is being trafficked. We cannot afford to be complicit.
Paying attention means I refuse to close my eyes when it feels painful. It means I will be interceding for this. It is not a hard thing to pray for victims of sexual abuse, sex trafficking, sexual assault. It is not a hard thing to pray that God would bring predators, wherever they sit, at any point of government, to account and bring justice. We have a biblical mandate to pray for justice.
Moore: We can easily think, Oh, that’s just news. There are likely people around you, whoever you are, who are in danger and who are being preyed upon. One of the things they’re looking for is Can I trust you? If I tell you this, are you going to care? Are you going to help me? Are you going to blame me?
When they see you respond to something that may seem very distant with “That’s just the news right now. What difference does it make?,” you’re not just responding to the news. You’re responding to the person, and that has implications that are eternal.
