1. You’ve recently accepted a new ministry position. What is one of the first things you do when you move to a new church or place of leadership?
There was a teacher of the year a few years ago named Kenny Dowd. I remember a phrase that he used that I liked a lot: “the hidden curriculum.” There’s the formal curriculum. That’s when the teacher gets the math book out and teaches algebra. Then there’s the hidden curriculum: Who gets called on and who doesn’t? Who wants to sit by which kid, and which kid gets left alone? And it’s the hidden curriculum that really shapes the lives of students most strongly.
I think similarly in church there’s the formal curriculum. When I stand up and teach, that’s an important thing and that will shape folks. But the hidden curriculum is about how the people relate to each other.
When somebody comes up to talk with me. Do I look at them, so as to say Oh, you’re important so I really want to spend some time with you, or You’re not very important so I really don’t want to pay much attention to you?
When people get together, does gossip go on and does it go unchallenged? If I’m unhappy with somebody else that I’m working with, do I have a conversation with a third person and just dump on that person?
Our real beliefs are more communicated by the hidden curriculum than they are by the formal curriculum. In those moments I’m not trying to be spiritual, I’m revealing what I really think.
And I think the hidden curriculum is even stronger than the formal curriculum in shaping the spiritual lives of folks who are part of the church.
2. When do you bring the hidden curriculum into the open?
One of the craziest things in churches is when people are aware that the hidden curriculum is messed up—that there are unhealthy, unChristlike dynamics operating in the church—but they don’t get talked about from the front. There are churches, and everybody knows about them, where there are two really strong, powerful people don’t like each other. And everybody knows they don’t like each other, but no one from the front ever talks about unity, how unity is supposed to work, and what conflict resolution should look like.
The teaching ministry absolutely must address the reality of the hidden spiritual life of the congregation. I think it’s a crucial thing.
3. Do you name names or deal with the principles?
I’m not recommending you say right away, “Euodia and Syntyche here are not getting along with each other.” Although in that case, Paul does address the congregation and he names the problem and the people quite clearly. He does it with great love and commends the women that he’s talking about, but it’s brought into the open. Most times it can be handled openly, by preaching on unity and forgiveness, but without shaming or naming the people.
For every place where it’s talked about maybe too openly, there are probably ten cases where it just goes underground and isn’t addressed at all. I think that tends much more to give you problems.
4. How long does it take a pastor to recognize the hidden curriculum of the congregation? Say he’s in a new place.
Hypothetical, right? It’s a constant process. I think you can be someplace for twenty years and you still learn about it. But you also can walk on a church campus the first time, and there are certain things you can feel.
In coming here, this church is in the heart of Silicon Valley—a center of business and technical development. So pace of life issues, the temptation to allow work to determine my value, the pressure to look like I’m doing okay—that’s all part of the culture that is really close to the surface.
5. How do you determine the issues that are below the surface, aside from the grapevine?
One of the principles of therapy is this: I want to be healthy enough that, when I’m with you, I’m able to experience in myself some of what’s going on inside of you.
In family therapy, if a therapist is sitting with a couple and the therapist is bored, he or she will sometimes share that with the couple: “Maybe the reason that I’m feeling boredom is because there’s some kind of a stuckness here with you as a couple.”
Now I think there’s a similar role in church leadership. I ask myself, What am I experiencing? Does what I’m experiencing personally tell me something about the spiritual temperature of the whole congregation?
In part, if you learn to read your own reactions, you will gain insight into the congregation.
After nine years as teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, John Ortberg was recently called as teaching pastor of Menlo Park (California) Presbyterian Church. He will be a featured speaker at the National Pastors Convention in San Diego (in March) and in Nashville, Tennessee (in May). For more information, visit www.nationalpastorsconvention.com.
A full-length interview with John will be featured in the Winter issue of Leadership, due in mailboxes in mid-January.
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