
Interview: The Business Of Making Saints (Part 2)
An interview with Eugene H. Peterson | posted 4/01/1997
 1 of 4

(Second of two parts; click here
to read Part 1)
Then study starts to erode. You cannot go to a pulpit week after week and
preach truth accurately without constant study. Our minds blur on us, and
we need that constant sharpening of our minds. And without study, without
the use of our mind in a disciplined way, we are sitting ducks for the culture.
This culture is an evil culture. This culture is the enemy. Through the media,
through friends, through conversations we're constantly fed lies, and like
most lies, they're 90 percent the truth. So you swallow the lie, and subtly,
the edge of the gospel is blunted; you think you're preaching the gospel,
and you're not. You don't even know it.
So the first task in providing pastoral care is to pray and to study the
Word
Who's going to do that except the pastor? People in the congregation are
busy in their jobs, reading their periodicals and attending their conferences.
It's my job to be suspicious of the culture. I'm not a culture critic, but
to be a pastor, I cannot be seduced by the world. This becomes increasingly
difficult in this so-called postmodern time. If you're not sharp, you're
on the Devil's side without knowing it.
A student was telling me he saw a video on Michael Jordan. He said, "Michael
Jordan looks so lazy. He looks like he's not doing anything. Then suddenly,
he's through three people, and he's slam-dunking the ball."
As a pastor, how do you slip through the opposition and make your point?
You do it by being lazy—or what looks like being lazy—sitting in your study
for half a day reading a book that doesn't have anything to do with your
sermon.
As a pastor I've got a responsibility to be alert to my culture so that my
congregation is not seduced. If I don't do it, nobody will.
Most congregations don't think they're paying pastors to do that.
That's true. But they're not the ones who give me my job description.
I get my job description from the Scriptures, from my ordination vows. If
I let the congregation decide what I'm going to do, I'm as bad as a doctor
who prescribes drugs on request. Medical societies throw out doctors for
doing that kind of thing; we need theological societies to throw out pastors
for doing the same thing.
And if you give up prayer and study, you will soon give up the third area:
people.
Pastors give up caring for people?
Nobody makes a decision to do this. The defection happens slowly.
Listening, paying attention to people is the most inefficient way to do anything.
It's tedious, and it's boring, and when you do it, it feels like you're wasting
time and not getting anything done. So when the pressures start to mount,
when there are committees to run to and budgets to fix, what's got to go?
Listening to people. Seeing them in their uniqueness, without expecting anything
of them.
You quit paying attention, and people get categorized and recruited. It doesn't
take long for pastors to become good manipulators. Most of us learn those
skills pretty quickly. If you can make a person feel guilty, you can make
him or her do almost anything. And who's better at guilt than pastors?
Mothers?
(Laughter) Mothers, yes.
What happens, though, is that when I see the person, I'm not really listening
to his or her situation because I don't have time. I'm thinking, I wonder
if he'll say yes to taking on this ministry. Or, I've heard her troubles
fifty times already. She's not going to tell me anything new.
Maybe she won't. But people are not telling you their troubles in order to
inform you about their troubles. They're looking for connection. They're
waiting for prayer. They're pilgrims, and my task as their pastor is to be
with them where they are.
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