Caryn, I am SO THANKFUL that you were encouraged and nurtured as a child in your church to develop and use your gifts freely. I am sad to tell you that I was not. I was greatly discouraged as not the right kind of girl--not quiet, not "submissive" to the opinions and commands of men, joyfully assertive and wanting to serve in capacities in which I was gifted, but barred from doing so because I lacked a penis. Largely because of these experiences in the church, I proudly call myself a Feminist. This is why I reject "evangelical feminism." The implication of "traditional family values" has historically meant an imperative to women that their "place" is exclusively at home--that they are unfit to participate in the world of business, politics, and church leadership. How is this empowering or equality-inducing? Many, many "conservative" churches are basions of sexism. I cannot accept that there is any trace of feminism in those environments. I reject the abortion issue as a litmus test of feminism. Most basic definition of feminism I understand: the belief in women's full economic, social, political and personal equality. Anyone who accepts that premise, I consider to be a feminist. If by "evangelical feminism" one means to fulfill that definition, but rejects a stance for unobstructed abortion, I can wholeheartedly accept that. If it means that women are "equal in value, but unequal in roles", if it means that women are "separate but equal" as much of "conservative evangelicalism" preaches, then I adamantly reject their inclusion in "feminism." Those people are unabashed patriarchalists, and at least should be honest about it. (There are many who are.) THAT is what I believe hurts women and hurts the functioning of the Body of Christ. THAT is what should be confronted.

Evangelical Feminism has led to the breakdown of the family and is one reason why Homosexuals are demanding place in the pulpit. They have claimed since we ignore the bibles prohibition of woman Pastors and roles int he home it is ok to fudge on the issue of homosexuals in the pulpit. Isaiah stated that when God judged Israel He would remove the wise, and the mighty man of valor. Women and children would rule over them. Having a woman as leading the nation was a sign of God's judgement upon Israel rather than His blessing. We need to return to the integrity of the bible. Because, on the altar of materialism women have forged there path in the workplace, and the older women are not teaching the younger women to be keepers at home we have destroyed the younger generation who were forced to be raised by an atheist state. The day a woman becomes president, then surely our fate is sealed as a nation toward destruction. Not because A woman is not capable of being a good leader, but we have denied God's word for political correctness.

John - but what do you mean when you say many young women have rejected "feminism"? They don't believe women have the right to vote and work? Become president? Or they don't believe in the feminism that strives to make social progress, now that legal progress has been made? What kind of feminism do you mean? Furthermore, you define feminism as a "misdirected authoritarianism," but I don't. Ideal feminism, in my point of view, is the direct opposite; it attempts to liberate people. Certainly it fails in many cases. So do Christians, but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Certainly only Christ can truly liberate and illuminate people, as you say. In that way, feminism (again, depending on how you define it) is not incompatible with Christianity. In fact I believe the Bible espouses feminism, and by "feminism" I mean equality between the sexes. Feminism has expanded over the decades to not just protecting and championing women, but minorities in general (if it didn't it would be hypocritical). And that is one of Christ's commands, to protect the poor and victimized. Of course secular feminists will never acknowledge that such a call is ultimately Biblical.

Nadine - How long often should one try to swap words, as you suggested, before recognizing that it makes no difference in the outcome? How does exchanging one form of misdirected authoritarianism for another help fix a broken system? Why is there a widespread rejection of feminism by many, many, many of today's young women, both Christian and secular? Do they perhaps also understand what feminism is all about? Misogyny, misandry - both are pretty ugly and are, thankfully, cast out when Christ illuminates our minds and ways of being in life. It is only when we recognize the uniqueness of each person that we can honor each other as intended by our Creator Redeemer.

Oh and Cheryl, love your passion for Christ!

K, you said the reason republicans can't be feminists was "because the social conservatives is the directly opposite of feminist goals and objectives". Really? Seriously? You have to wanna murder babies in the womb to be a feminist? I'm pretty sure there are feminists who are democrats who are anti-abortion. So what else? I'm trying to think of another social conservative idea that precludes republican women from being feminists. Can't come up with ANY. Then there's the idea that feminism is about equality across the board having something to do with the church not allowing it. The problem is K (do you work for a secret gov't organisation tracking extra-terrestrials?) Leadership in the church is not man's or woman's to 'give.' The church is God's possession and he makes the rules. Yes, some have decided that He is OK with it. But for those of us who have ample evidence to question that finding and still believe we would be DISOBEDIENT to GOD to "set in" women pastors, we have no choice but to obey God rather than MEN. Now there are many feminist and female pastors in churches, but even many of them would agree they wouldn't have done this contrary to GOd's desired plan. THey just believe they have found loopholes or a better translation of God's desires.

Adam Shields, if you think that the defeat of the ERA was about the equality between men and women you just missed it all. It was the wording of the amendment that would have radically changed many laws that are only now starting to fail. Namely opening the door for no gender definitions for marriage. Used to be, we thought (we being people of the 60s and 70s) men and women are equal, its patently obvious, but we also know where gender matters. It doesn't belong in formulaic quotas forced onto groups that will evolve very well without government mandates, but it matters that women are represented in all institutions; most specifically in marriage. Where men and women should be represented in each one of them.

Anne - Definitions are not a distraction. You define "feminism" as "promoting women's equality and well-being," but the people who posted right above you define it as the opposite: the first calls it anti-Christian and the second anti-individual. I agree with the rest of your post though. John - Swap the word "patriarchy" for "feminism" in your statement and you'll understand what feminism is all about.

I think the discussion of definitions has become a distraction. I suppose we could complicate the meaning of "evangelical" but I imagine everyone on this forum knows whether or not they are one without having it defined for them. As for "feminist", let's take it in its broadest sense of promoting women's equality and well-being. And contrary to what some men posting seem to think, that is not always served by the exclusive leadership of men. Prior to the 20th century women were NOT equal under the law and plenty of men used Scripture to justify the inequities. By all means, let us uphold the authority of Scripture, but I am astounded at how some interpret Scripture in light of the traditions of men without any apparent awareness that they are doing so. Whether it is tradition or modernity, it is still human opinion. My concern with having our brothers assert an equality of value without an equality of station is that so few of them really believe it. They try to justify God's decrees by explaining why women are unfit for leadership roles, and the result is always some ridiculous and demeaning stereotype of women. I grew up among fundamentalists, and I saw how sexist comments by boys were tolerated with a wink and a grin while girls walked away feeling hurt and belittled. Surely, when God made Eve in His image, He gave her more dignity than that.

It is a puzzle as to why any whole individual would want to, or feel the need to, stifle her/his unique personhood within the stuffy, controlling mantle of feminism.