Today's interview is with Leslie Leyland Fields, a contributing editor for Christianity Today. Leslie is also an author, speaker, and workshop leader. Her latest book is Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers: Finding Freedom from Hurt and Hate. We talk with Leslie about forgiveness, pain, and authenticity.
1) You wrote your latest book, not from an academic point of view, but from deep and personal experience. Do you think this informs the idea of forgiveness better?
Yes, I do think we need experiential stories, but that's not my whole answer. In this messy, muddy world, we do indeed need to illuminate what forgiveness look like when real clay-footed people try to live it out. That's what I'm offering—my story and about 30 others, from all kinds of backgrounds. So yes, I believe in the power of narrative, but I believe even more in the primacy of the Scriptures.
Most of what I'm seeing written on forgiveness these days could benefit from a little theology. No, could benefit from a lot of theology. We need both. The most visible, popular books on forgiveness even in the church are story-based and feel-good based, primarily about self-empowerment. They're distorting the gospel, diminishing it into yet another tool in the American Dream toolkit. Yes, let's use narrative—but that should never eclipse the pursuit of knowledge and right theology. There's no reason Word, flesh, and story can't meld into a single message.
2) Seems there is a lot of pain in families today, with abuse, divorce, and other tragic social factors. Do you think there is more pain in families today than before?
I want to say no, that families have always been a mess, that we've always been plagued with what L. Gregory Jones calls the "universal disaster of sinful brokenness." Look at the dysfunction in most of the families in the Scriptures. Family jealousy, rejection, neglect, and even domestic homicide is as ancient as sin. We can't forget that there truly is "nothing new under the sun." But in our country the statistics are incontrovertible. One in five children in the U.S. live below the poverty line. More than seven million kids live with parents with addictions. One in four families is affected by mental illness. One in four families is headed by a single working parent. Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 have been sexually victimized; and we're not even talking yet about the children involved in divorce. It's clear that the American family is in upheaval. These are not just numbers to me. I grew up in several of these categories, so I know the lifelong depth of pain and disruption they cause.
3) Sometimes, "forgiveness" is painted as just overlooking harm. Kind of whitewashing the hurt and forgetting aboutit. But that's actually not Biblical forgiveness, is it?
Not at all. We're often advised to "forgive and forget," and we're tempted ourselves to "just move on." And we've got a verse to prove it, Phil. 3:13: "… one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead . . ." This fits in very nicely as well with our cultural habit of pain-avoidance.
We can't turn and heal from sin unless we acknowledge what actually happened. We can't move toward the right without acknowledging the wrong.
But the Scriptures are full of God's admonitions to confess our sins, to him and to one another, and to "remember." We can't turn and heal from sin unless we acknowledge what actually happened. We can't move toward the right without acknowledging the wrong. In the OT, God details the Israelites sins with shocking, graphic detail.
When we choose to cut out whole parts of our memories and lives, we're going to lose a whole chunk of who we are, and we're going to lose out on reclaiming those dark rooms. And, we know as well that erasure of pain and trauma from our memories often signals mental illness rather than health.
4) Do you think many of us have a misunderstanding of what forgiveness is?
Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions out there. Here are two of the biggest I see: People expect forgiveness to be a one-time event rather than a process and rather than a daily practice I think there's a reason Jesus teaches us to pray "And forgive us our debts as we forgive out debtors" right after "give us this day our daily bread." And people expect forgiveness to take away all the pain. It doesn't. If your father didn't show up for your graduation or your mother just kicked you out of her house, you're going to feel hurt, no matter how forgiving you are. And you should feel hurt! Forgiveness is not about being pain-free; it's about being like Christ, pouring out the mercy we received—undeservedly—to the ones like us, who don't deserve it either. It's not a bullet-proof vest. In some ways it even makes us more vulnerable.
Forgiveness is not about being pain-free; it's about being like Christ, pouring out the mercy we received—undeservedly—to the ones like us, who don't deserve it either.
5) If you are talking to a pastor, who works with hurting people in their congregation, what words would you give to help guide people toward forgiveness?
Many churches are still playing the "Perfect Family Game Show," even without intending it. I just got an email today from a reader thanking me for writing the book because she felt "lost in a sea of Christian culture" where no one feels comfortable talking about difficult pasts and family issues. When we hide behind masks of normalcy and perfection, we create a culture of competition and pride. We won't get to the real issues and then, in due time, to the biblical response—forgiveness—without some real honesty. Nor are we doing much to create community. That's first. Like any 12 step program, you first have to admit you've got a problem.
In addition to creating a culture of authenticity and support, I see one more need. We need passionate preaching on the holiness of God. We struggle with forgiveness and loving our enemies (yes, and even our neighbors) because we don't know God very well, and consequently we forget who we are. We forget that we're that hireling called before the King with nothing to show for themselves but dissolution and debts. There's nothing to stop the King from kicking them into the slammer for the rest of his miserable days. Mercy and love stop him, of course, but we really don't think we're all that bad. And if we only need a tiny dab of mercy ourselves, that's all we've got for others.
I'm not talking about a return to hellfire, brimstone, and wormy groveling. I'm talking about genuine encounters with the holiness of God, which leads to genuine humility, forgiveness, and community. If we could just do that!
Daniel Darling is vice-president of communications for the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Activist Faith.
