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Max Lucado's books have sold over 11 million copies,
and he consistently makes Christianity Today's list of readers' favorite Christian writers. His list of homespun bestsellers makes it easy to overlook the fact that, first and foremost, he is pastor of Oak Hills Church of Christ in San Antonio, Texas. A former prodigal who regularly used to split a case of beer with a friend ("that's two six-packs apiece"), he one day found himself sitting in a pickup truck in a Piggly Wiggly parking lot murmuring, "There's got to be more than this." That was the beginning of a turnaround that fueled his passion for the gospel of grace, a theme in his many books.

CT associate editor Wendy Murray Zoba caught up with Lucado to find out what he is thinking about the church today.

How would you assess the state of the evangelical movement at the end of the twentieth century?
We're struggling to deal with some tough questions. We don't know quite how to respond to some hard social questions, like abortion. We don't know whether to be militant against a homosexual or work side by side with homosexuals. We don't know if it helps to boycott this need or if we should pray for this need. We have identified the enemy, but we don't know how to respond.

How do we resolve this dilemma?
That's why I'm in San Antonio and why I preach. The culture we face is no more deviant than the culture Jesus faced. He lived in a society that denigrated women, and from what I understand, their treatment of the less fortunate was just horrible. But I don't see Jesus being politically active. My conviction is to lead one congregation in one sizable city to the point where we lead such admirable, respectable, and contagious lives that we may never even verbalize that we are Christians, or put a fish sign on our car, or pick up a picket sign. We just live such attractive lives that people say, "That's what I'd like to be." That's putting the leaven into society.

One Christian leader likened the American church to a vase of roses with the flowers slowly wilting—there's some life, but it's fading.
There are four phenomena happening that are very healthy. One is the rise of the large congregation, the two-, four-, and ten-thousand-member congregation. Another is the reawakening of men. The third is the desire to break down the denominational walls without compromising denominational convictions. The fourth is the desire to have a supernatural relationship with God. When I was in college, the big book was Knowing God, and now the big book is Experiencing God. So there's a hunger. Those four things are miracles.

Now, you might argue that the megachurch is a cultural phenomenon just like the mall. But the breaking down of denominational walls just didn't happen 10 or 15 years ago. That's not been a result of anybody's strategy. The Holy Spirit has been doing that. The men's movement has not come from any organized strategy. Who would have selected a coach to lead this? They're meeting, they're praying, they're confessing, they're opening their hearts up. They're better leaders. They're tithing. They're opening their minds up and experiencing God.

Those four things are really exciting. I'm very optimistic.

There has been a lot of factionalism within evangelicalism recently. Evangelicals and Catholics Together, for example, has prompted some strong reactions. How do you reconcile your optimism and this kind of fracturing?
It's inevitable that there might be resistance. But with time, if we pray through it and ask God's Spirit to lead us, this won't continue. I'm thrilled about ECT. I signed that document. I don't consider myself an authority on all of that. I look up to men like Chuck Colson and others who are architects of this. I'm just admiring what they are doing.

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February 8 1999, Vol. 43, No. 2