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Eddie Gibbs is the Donald McGavran professor of church growth at Fuller Seminary. In 2000 he wrote Church Next: Quantum Changes in How We Do Ministry (InterVarsity Press), which won a CT Book Award. Since then there have been many developments in youth churches, postmodern ministries, and other edgy ecclesiologies. A few weeks ago, radio host Dick Staub asked Gibbs about this changing world and how it affects his work.

If you could now add another chapter to Church Next, what would it be?

It would address more closely the issue of leadership. I've learned a lot more by talking to young leaders. That's been a growing point in my own understanding.

What's happening within church leadership?

When you look at Baby Boomers and the generations before them, they all represent a culture of control. Generation X and Generation Y possess a strong reaction against the culture of control. This is another one of the reasons for [those generations] to walk away from the church.

I represent the older generation, and we used to think in terms of delegating ministry. That's the language of control. You can't delegate to somebody what God has already called and gifted them to do in the first place. Instead, we need to use the language of empowerment. We've got to learn the skills of doing that.

I go back to the Bible and its understanding of authority: the authority must be intrinsic. Having been with Jesus for three years, the disciples would say that he was full of grace and truth. That was the authority. Grace is generosity. Truth is authenticity. Your authority doesn't arise out of your position—your authority arises out of who you are. Gen Xers are very sensitive about that.

Is this why they may reject the authority of older generations?

Part of it is that sensitivity—especially if the generation they're reacting against is their parents' generation. They get on much better with their grandparents.

This is a serious point here: I think that we need three generations. We need the older generation who will mentor the younger generation. And often the biggest clash is between your boomers and your Gen Xers. Now, if you skip a generation the whole dynamic changes.

The really healthy Gen X churches that I've been to have three generations. They have older folks there to mentor younger leaders.

You believe we are now at a "strategic inflection point." What is that?

The strategic inflection point is the decision you make that will be determinative of the future. You are poised on a cusp. Things are going to change whether we like it or not, and the decisions you make at this cusp will determine whether you go into a nosedive or whether you enter into a new growth curve.

So you would argue that churches humming along now will be affected by a fundamental shift that is about to take place?

It's already happening. Many churches are really struggling for survival.

What's the shift?

The organizations that are really moving in the Western world are building on a network structure rather than a hierarchical structure. Previous generations of leaders have not been trained in how to be the leader of a network.

The Gen Xers have a better grasp of that intuitively. But we need to help point out some of the dangers and help with the skills.

The second thing is a knowledge revolution. Knowledge is no longer privileged information. To be in the know is really very important. How we communicate within the life of the church and the strength of the internal communications are crucial. That again is [a reaction] against the culture of control where only the privileged know.

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January (Web-only) 2003, Vol. 47